XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: mr@sandman.net   
      
   In article , Morgoth's Curse wrote:   
      
   > > Bill O'Meally:   
   > > On 2014-12-06 10:54:22 +0000, Morgoth's Curse said:   
   >   
   > > > > Tolkien wrote that after the fall of Elendil, the High Elves   
   > > > > too back this stone into their own care, and it was never   
   > > > > again used by men, which is why it was on the ship.   
   > > >   
   > > > > Aragorn, or rather the dunedain were the lawful masters of the   
   > > > > stone, but it was never used by men again. Elves pilgrimaged   
   > > > > to the Tower Hill to gace into it over the sea to the Undying   
   > > > > Lands.   
   > > >   
   > > > Morgoth's Curse:   
   > > > Do you have a citation for this?  I cannot find it anywhere in   
   > > > Unfinished Tales.   
   > >   
   > > Bill O'Meally:   
   > > There's a footnote in Appendix A in RotK that states Círdan put it   
   > > aboard Elrond's ship when he left.   
   >   
   > I should clarify that I am aware of that footnote.  I was wondering   
   > whether Sandman had a specific citation for his assertion that it   
   > was never again used by Men or whether that was his extrapolation   
   > from the text.   
      
   Hehe, you were being quite unclear what part of my post you were asking for   
   clarification, so my followup only concerned the last part, after which   
   your question appeared.   
      
   The stone is taken to the Undying lands, which is outside the reach of   
   mortal men, hence the stone cannot ever be used by men again. Bilbo and   
   Frodo are among the very few mortals to have ever travelled there.   
      
   > I did not find any text that specifically states that the "Elves   
   > pilgrimaged to the Tower Hill to gace into it over the sea to the Undying   
   > Lands."  To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence either that   
   > the Elves ever used it or that Men never used it again before Cirdan sent   
   > it to Aman on Elrond's ship.   
      
   See my other followup, where I quote Tolkien explaining what Gildor was   
   doing when he met Frodo.   
      
   And if the stone is in Amar, then no mortal man will ever use it.   
      
   > It may be that Aragorn knew of its existence and had looked into it once   
   > or twice, but deemed that there was no better custodian in Middle-earth   
   > than Cirdan.  If he was familiar with the lore of the Palantir, he would   
   > have known that it was not in accord with the other Stones and was   
   > therefore effectively useless for his purposes.   
      
   The stone was meant to look back at Numenor by Elendil, but since it had   
   sunk all it could ever see was the sea. The elves, however, could use it to   
   see Aman and the Tower of Avallone where the master stone was kept.   
      
   Aragorn wouldn't have much use of gazing at this tower, like Elendil once   
   had, so he has no reason to keep the stone.   
      
      
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