XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: degrafi@freenet.de   
      
   Hi!   
      
   Am 26.05.2015 um 00:08 schrieb Barry Schwarz:   
   > At the Council of Elrond, Glorfindel suggest sending the ring "over   
   > the Sea."  Elrond responds "They who dwell beyond the Sea would not   
   > receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth."  How can he   
   > and Gandalf keep a straight face during this?   
   >   
   > They both know that Sauron is not a creature of Middle-earth.   
      
   Neither is he one of Valinor (or Eldamar). I guess (!) he went into   
   Melkor's service at he time of the two Pillars or even earlier. Perhaps   
   someone's got a source.   
      
   > He is a   
   > Maia.  He entered Arda with the Valar at the beginning of the world   
   > and eventually became Melkor's servant.   
      
   Not at once, at least. He's been a Maia of Aule in the beginning.   
      
   > The Valar chose to delay   
   > dealing with Melkor due to their uncertainty about the coming of Elves   
   > and Men.   
   >   
   > But what is their excuse for not dealing with Sauron after the War of   
   > Wrath.  Gandalf, in his true form as one of the high ranking Maiar,   
   > would have been there as part of the Western forces.   
      
   Sure about Olorin being a part of the western forces?   
      
   > Elrond would be   
   > there as part of the Elven forces.  They both would have known that   
   > Sauron surrendered to Eonwë and his subsequent escape was due solely   
   > to blatant negligence by the Powers.  All the havoc Sauron caused,   
   > from the destruction of Númenor to making the One Ring, was   
   > perpetrated by someone from Valinor and tolerated by the Valar's   
   > indifference.   
   >   
   > Why is it the responsibility of the inhabitants of Middle-earth to   
   > deal with problems caused by an outsider?  It's not like the Valar   
   > didn't know what was happening.  In the Akallabêth: "Manwë was   
   > grieved, seeing a cloud gather ..."   
      
   I always thought that the Valar failed in that matter. They fenced   
   themselves more and more, and became ever more remote to the mortal   
   people of Middle-Earth. Their way of dealing with the 'bad-asses' of   
   Arda might be called 'uninspired' in the latter days. :-)   
   In fact, they continuously decreased their commitment as guardians of Arda.   
      
   > It should not have been necessary to send the ring into the West.  The   
   > Valar should have come for it and Sauron.  If not immediately after   
   > discovering his escape then as part of the changing of the world when   
   > Ar-Pharazôn stepped on Undying Lands.   
      
   No, see above.   
   Additionally there are further reasons:   
      
   1. The ring WAS an item of Middle-Earth, it had been forged there.   
   2. It were the Noldor, the sons of the rebels whose greed for knowledge   
   made them blind for Sauron's 'offerings'. Remember that Celebrimbor was   
   the grandson of Feanor. Certainly it's unjust that the mortal man (and   
   Elves of Middle-Earth) had to suffer because of the Noldorian fails.   
   3. The ring might be 'tainted' in the Eyes of the Valar. Perhaps there's   
   the fear that the era of Valinor might come to an end if again something   
   evil, something influenced by Melkor came to the Blessed Realm. They   
   were content with themselves.   
   BTW: As Tolkien embedded his 'invented myth' in real history, the   
   consequence might be that the mortals continuously stopped worshipping   
   the Valar until the old 'Gods' had no 'presence' in the minds of people   
   any more, and (almost) only the reverence for Illuvatar (aka   
   Lord/Allah/Jahwe) remained.   
      
   Michael   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)