XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: j@j.ii   
      
   "Sandman"  wrote in message   
   news:sandman-a792cbf3a24296b68e3d71a0281c92ff@individual.net...   
   > In article , Stan Brown   
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> > Barry Schwarz:   
   >> > Melkor was one of the most powerful beings in Arda.  When the   
   >> > Valar moved against him, it was catastrophic for the land and many   
   >> > people (like open heart surgery).  I could understand the Valar   
   >> > not wanting that to happen again.  By comparison, Sauron was a   
   >> > pipsqueak.   
   >>   
   >> I don't think so. There's a passage somewhere where Tolkien writes   
   >> that Sauron at the end of the Third Age was more powerful than   
   >> Morgoth at the end of the First. The reason was that Morgoth   
   >> dissipated much of his essence into all the material of Arda to   
   >> corrupt it, but Sauron did not need to do that.   
   >   
   > I think you meant Sauron at the end of the the second age, not at the end   
   > of the   
   > third - which means that Sauron at his greatest was more powerful than   
   > Morgoth at   
   > his weakest (end of first).   
   >   
   > Sauron at his greatest (end of second) compared to Morgoth at his greatest   
   > (Years   
   > of the Trees) is no match, and Sauron is indeed a mere "pipsqueak" in   
   > comparison.   
   >   
   > In fact, much of the reason why Sauron could become so powerful at the end   
   > of   
   > second is directly related to what Morgoth did in his time.   
   >   
   > --   
   > Sandman   
      
   But that then begs the question - if Sauron was so powerful at the end of   
   the Second Age, how then could he have been overcome and defeated by the   
   mere assemblage of elves and men? I don't think the elves or men had any   
   other skill than they had in the first age - matter of fact Aragorn was   
   3000 years away, and no one like Tuor lived in the second age (except the   
   kings of Numenor, but none of them did anything like that in the second age)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)