From: fwbrown@bellsouth.net   
      
   On Tue, 30 May 2017 11:02:03 in article  Paul S. Person  wrote:   
   > On Mon, 29 May 2017 19:16:38 +0100, temujin   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Sun, 28 May 2017 08:34:09 -0700, Paul S. Person   
   >> wrote:   
   >>> I don't think JRRT ever decided what Orcs were, never   
   >>> mind what their ultimate fate would be (comtemplating   
   >>> possibility of third choir of Eruhini at end of the Music,   
   >>> this one singing very off-key).   
   >>   
   >>Maybe orcs have a similar fate to dwarves but I can't remember what   
   >>that was... did Aule get a special dispensation for his subcreation?   
   >   
   > IIRC, at some point, it is recorded (I don't recall where or who said   
   > it) that the Dwarves went to a special Hall and would assist Aule in   
   > rebuilding Arda (so it was no longer Marred) after the final victory.   
      
   This is what it says in the Silmarillion ("Of Aulë and Yavanna"):   
      
     Aforetime it was held among the Elves in Middle-earth that dying the   
     Dwarves returned to the earth and the stone of which they were made;   
     yet that is not their own belief. For they say that Aulë the Maker,   
     whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos   
     in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old   
     that Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the   
     Children in the End. Then their part shall be to serve Aulë and   
     to aid him in the remaking of Arda after the Last Battle.   
      
   >   
   >>Hmm. orcs, dwarves, dragons and other creatures of dubious origin   
   >>singing karaoke to the main Music.   
   >   
   > It gets very hard to be sure. Orcs as Eruhini (twisted Eruhini, to be   
   > sure, but Eruhini nonetheless) is only one theory and, even then,   
   > whether they are Elves or Men or a mixture of both is unclear.   
   >   
   > Their long-lived major leaders are, at one point, said to be Maia, and   
   > the Balrogs might be Maia, even the dragons. But it is hard to be sure   
   > what JRRT had in mind.   
      
   --   
   F. Wayne Brown    
      
         ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9   
   "A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)