XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: psperson@old.netcom.invalid   
      
   On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:30:27 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein    
   wrote:   
      
   >In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person  wrote:   
   >> On Tue, 6 Jan 2026 05:07:18 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein    
   >> wrote:   
   >>    
   >>>In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person  wrote:   
   >>>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2026 21:40:16 -0000 (UTC), "O. Sharp"    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>    
   >>>>>Louis Epstein  quotes and asks:   
   >>>>>>>>       "'Yes,'said Frodo.'...now all is over.   
   >>>>>>>>       I am glad you are here with me.Here at   
   >>>>>>>>       the end of all things,Sam.'"   
   >>>>>>>>    
   >>>>>>>>       "'I am glad that you are here with me,'   
   >>>>>>>>       said Frodo.'Here at the end of all things,   
   >>>>>>>>       Sam.'"   
   >>>>>[...]   
   >>>>>>    
   >>>>>> I do not have any pre-1966 "First Edition" copies,but my oldest   
   >>>>>> Ballantine and HMCo Second Editions both have the discrepancy.   
   >>>>>>    
   >>>>>> Did Hammond & Scull flag this in their work?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>The First Edition has the same discrepancy for "that", and Hammond and    
   >>>>>Scull's _Reader's Companion_ makes no note of it. In fact that line of    
   >>>>>Frodo's (or those lines, if you prefer) doesn't even rate a mention in    
   >>>>>_HoME IX_, even though it includes a reference to a plot outline where    
   >>>>>Frodo was still named "Bingo". I guess _nobody_ wanted to point it out    
   >>>>>before now.  :)   
   >>>>    
   >>>> Or perhaps everybody else was sane enough to recognize that the two   
   >>>> situations produced similar thoughts.   
   >>>   
   >>>So you believe it was two different situations and lines   
   >>>rather than the same line chronicled differently?   
   >>    
   >> It's been too long since I read the book to be clear.   
   >>    
   >> But my memory does suggest that they occur in very different contexts.   
   >> With the same Hobbit reacting to similar psychological states the same   
   >> way.   
   >>    
   >> But, if you prefer the path of the Higher Criticism, feel free. It can   
   >> do no harm, for it is ultimately pointless.   
   >   
   >Both of them refer to Frodo speaking to Sam on the slopes of Orodruin   
   >after the collapse of Barad-dur...there would not be confusion over whether   
   >this is a repetition of the exact same speech if there were any clear   
   >distinction.   
      
   Well, have you considered the possibility that Frodo, having lost a   
   finger, is in shock and not thinking clearly? And reacting to Sam the   
   same way twice as a result?   
      
   As I said, the Higher Criticism is find, but ultimately pointless.   
      
   I mean, what does this mean in terms of the Red Book? That there were   
   two sources for this episode that a later redactor later merged? Are   
   we to start dividing the texts up into different original sources and   
   editorial notes?   
      
      
   --    
   "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,   
   Who evil spoke of everyone but God,   
   Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)