XPost: rec.arts.books.tolkien   
   From: le@lekno.ws   
      
   In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person  wrote:   
   > On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 02:43:00 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >>In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person  wrote:   
   >>> On 7 Jan 2026 18:01:15 GMT, Stephan Seitz    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person    
   wrote:   
   >>>>> Well, have you considered the possibility that Frodo, having lost a   
   >>>>> finger, is in shock and not thinking clearly? And reacting to Sam the   
   >>>>   
   >>>>I doubt it. Frodo was awake hours before Sam woke up, but slept again.   
   >>>>Nothing indicates that he was in anyway bewildered. Sam showed more   
   >>>>signs than Frodo.   
   >>>   
   >>> You snipped this:   
   >>>   
   >>>>Louis Epstein  quotes and asks:   
   >>>>>Both of them refer to Frodo speaking to Sam on the slopes of Orodruin   
   >>>>>after the collapse of Barad-dur...there would not be confusion over   
   whether   
   >>>>>this is a repetition of the exact same speech if there were any clear   
   >>>>>distinction.   
   >>>   
   >>> It has been a long time since I read the book, but am I really to   
   >>> understand that Frodo and Sam took hours-long naps after the Ring went   
   >>> into the Cracks of Doom while waiting for the Eagles?   
   >>>   
   >>> And I didn't say "bewildered". I said "in shock". Losing a finger by   
   >>> having it bitten off by Gollum tends to do that to people.   
   >>   
   >>How large a sample size of similarly affected individuals are you   
   >>relying on to posit this conclusion?   
   >   
   > It's called PTSD, once the actual shock disappears.   
   >   
   > JRRT was an officer in the trenches in WWI. He would have been   
   > well-aware of this phenomenon.   
      
   Gollum did not bit the finger off anyone in WW I.   
      
   > I take it you have no actual arguments left.   
   >   
   > I'm almost ready to explore the book and see if this really is   
   > before/after Frodo took a nap at Mt Doom after the Ring went in and   
   > the Tower fell. Or if one is at Mt Doom, and the other at the Field of   
   > Cormallon. I just have to be willing to take the time.   
      
   In the 50th Anniversary one-volume editions,   
   the two statements are at page 947 (at the end of the Mount Doom   
   chapter) and at page 950 (in the "Field of Cormallen" chapter,   
   as the Eagles come to pluck Frodo and Sam off Mount Doom).   
      
   >>> Very strange. Perhaps, the next time I have a pause in my eBook   
   >>> reading, it would be time to reread (some of) JRRT.   
      
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