XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.atheism, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
      
   On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 21:39:08 -0800, Jeanne Douglas    
   wrote:   
   .   
   >On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 20:49:22 -0500, mur wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 20:18:20 -0500, August Rode continued to wuss:   
   >>.   
   >>>On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:23:38 -0500, mur generously explained:   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 09:47:34 -0500, August Rode wussed horribly:   
   >>>>.   
   >>>>>On 05/02/2015 4:29 PM, mur challenged:   
   >>   
   >>>>>> On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:02:36 -0500, August Rode    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 31/01/2015 7:12 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:06:11 -0500, August Rode    
   wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 24/01/2015 1:45 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 08:39:31 -0500, August Rode  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> .   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 15/01/2015 5:06 PM, mur wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2015 12:18:39 -0500, August Rode  wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/01/2015 1:11 PM, mur.@.not. wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 13:19:47 -0500, August Rode <   
   ug.rode@gmail.com> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>    
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>          So far it STILL appears clear that YOU lied since you   
   couldn't provide the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed quote. Even if you eventually can, I did what you   
   whined about several   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> posts ago:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         Ok, AFAIK you have never claimed that all crop   
   circles were of human   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacture. Unless you can quote me saying you have made   
   that claim, it's now   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your turn to acknowledge that I've never claimed you have   
   made it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but you're not the quality of person to have acknowledged it.   
   And don't forget   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that unless you present the quote I challenged you on it will   
   still appear that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU are lying. I did say your position is suggesting it, but   
   don't recall saying   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you actually had the balls to say it specifically even though   
   you've made it   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear that you believe it.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> You're *still* talking out of both sides of your mouth.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>         I'm still pointing out what you have done.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not *believe* that all crop circles are made by humans.   
   Rather, it   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a *fact* that requires absolutely no belief that all crop   
   circles   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> have *probably* been made by humans and I've walked you through   
   the math   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> for that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>         You need to explain how people practice doing it so that   
   they can go out in   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> fields at night in the dark and do the jobs without making   
   mistakes that they   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> could not correct if they made any. Try doing that.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Why do *I* need to do that?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        To show that you're able to think realistically about it for   
   one thing, and   
   >>>>>>>>>> to address a very significant aspect relative to whether or not   
   humans could   
   >>>>>>>>>> have made all of them for another.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> See my analysis of the crop circle you linked to below.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Why is this the first time you've mentioned this?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        I've mentioned it a number of times as you're probably   
   aware, and you have   
   >>>>>>>>>> snipped it a number of times as you're probably equally aware.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> No, I'm not aware of that.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> You *still* don't appreciate my position. I do not hold any   
   beliefs   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> about who or what made an particular crop circle. For those   
   known to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been made by humans, no belief is required. For those whose   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer is unknown, I withhold belief as there is no point   
   to   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> holding a belief one way or the other. It is nevertheless a fact   
   that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> such crop circles are *probably* of human manufacture and that   
   doesn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> require belief.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>         Yes it does. For example I don't believe they probably   
   were or probably were   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> not,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> That's the beauty of facts... facts remain true regardless of   
   whether   
   >>>>>>>>>>> you believe they're true or false. I take it that your   
   understanding of   
   >>>>>>>>>>> statistics and probability are weak if not nonexistent. I can   
   explain in   
   >>>>>>>>>>> more detail if it will help you.   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>        You don't know how likely it is that xts would do something   
   like that   
   >>>>>>>>>> regardless of what you've learned about "probability". It makes you   
   feel better   
   >>>>>>>>>> somehow to take refuge in your own faith in the significance you   
   like to feel is   
   >>>>>>>>>> associated with it. But if humans couldn't have made all of those   
   patterns   
   >>>>>>>>>> without making mistakes they couldn't correct under the conditions   
   they appeared   
   >>>>>>>>>> during and within the time frames they appeared in, then they   
   couldn't have   
   >>>>>>>>>> regardless of statistics or probability as you interpret them. If   
   humans could   
   >>>>>>>>>> not and xts did, then no doubt there are still statisics and   
   probability   
   >>>>>>>>>> considerations that apply, but you're not taking them into   
   consideration and   
   >>>>>>>>>> don't have any way of knowing what they are.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> How many crop circles are definitely known to have been made by   
   humans?   
   >>>>>>>>> How many are *definitely* known to have been made by e   
   traterrestrials?   
   >>>>>>>>> If you didn't know whether a specific crop circle was human- or   
   ET-made   
   >>>>>>>>> but had to bet one way or the other, which way would you bet? You do   
   >>>>>>>>> know how to calculate odds, don't you?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>       Explain how to calculate odds if xts DID make some of the   
   circles. I'm not   
   >>>>>>>> interested in how to do it if they were all made by humans, since   
   there aren't   
   >>>>>>>> any odds to calculate if they did.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Did you notice that you didn't answer any of my questions?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>      I responded to them in a more realistic way than you had   
   previously been   
   >>>>>> able to imagine, or are able to appreciate now.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>And you *still* didn't answer my questions.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>          I responded to them in a more realistic way than you had   
   previously   
   >>>>been able to imagine, or are able to appreciate now. I don't know how to   
   >>>>calculate the odds if xts DID make some of them, so you try to explain it   
   if you   
   >>>>think you have some clue how to do it. Unless you DO it will remain clear   
   that   
   >>>>you don't have any idea at all, regardless of how you try to wuss away   
   from the   
   >>>>challenge.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>> Why should I   
      
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