XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.athiesm, alt.atheism   
   XPost: alt.talk.creationism, sci.skeptic   
   From: blue@there.com   
      
   On 01/07/2012 13:03, Ps.119 wrote:   
   >   
   >     the Big Bang Theory was concocted in the last century.  today, the idea   
   is feed to the gullible   
   > through media in the form of cartoons.  this Big Bang idea starts off   
   without a starting place...   
   > the ' stuff ' of the universe was " always there."  this, at least, leaves '   
   scientific ' thinker's   
   > with a model to work with but leaves out an extremely important foundation   
   to build their model   
   > on... all the while bypassing this and other extremely important factors   
   that are required to make   
   > their model tenable.   
      
   There have been in the past and are various models   
   for the Universe. But which ever one you lean to doesn't   
   mean the alternative is some default 7 day affair.   
      
   The Bible as we have it is the most recent of all   
   constructs in Universal time. See Job going on about   
   Orion and Pleiades, after the Greeks had invented them.   
   The Bible is essentially a rehash for older astrology   
   mythology. It holds no answers to today's scientific world.   
      
   Science is about having an idea and testing it to destruction.   
   Religion is about having an idea and destroying all   
   the people that test it.   
      
   I know which one I prefer.   
      
   Where does matter come from. E=mc2. So your new matter   
   comes from Energy of course. Having your particles   
   flying fast to fill a vacuum and see the matter appear.   
      
   A bit like the opposite of a fire. Matter to Energy.   
   It's a conversion thing rather than a pop out of no   
   where affair.   
      
      
   >    while the focus is on the ' stuff '... that is to say, the matter which   
   Big Banged it's way into   
   > the entire universe, the ' science ' needed to prove where this matter came   
   from in the first place   
   > is completely avoided.  it can not be proven by any means in the realm of   
   science exactly where this   
   > matter came from... to say it was "always there " does not prove it's   
   existence came from no where.   
   > such amounts to making a fact out of a guess.   
      
   And so the alternative to the Energy to Matter conversion   
   is God just Popped matter into existence, some how affair,   
   by magic ?   
      
   >    so now we have on the table a something in the realm of ' science '   
   telling us that matter came   
   > from no where.  this violates their own " scientific " law of Conservation   
   of Mass/Energy which   
   > states that matter can not be created or destroyed... that's why they must   
   conclude that the   
   > universe was " always there. "  the idea that matter was " always there"   
   just waiting to Big Bang   
   > it's way into the universe we have today, is untenable.   
      
   Yes see you keep leaving out the Energy part.   
   Think of the original Universe and a Giant   
   aching Vacuum of full of Energy. Then light the   
   touch paper.   
      
   >    along with that, these ' scientists ' also avoid the proof of where space   
   came from.  to say it   
   > was   'always there ' doesn't prove how it came to be... the big question is   
   " how it came to be "   
   > simply because it's inconceivable that something came from no where.  the   
   mass of matter which big   
   > banged wasn't laying on a table.  no, it was floating in space as they would   
   have us to presume.   
      
   Think I've done this.   
      
      
   >    now we have two things conveniently avoided by the ' scientific ' mind...   
   no proof of how matter   
   > came to be and no proof of how space came to be.  that it was " always there   
   " is pushed along as   
   > fact needing no proof. one of their kind actually attempts to answer this   
   charge by claiming when   
   > this matter, which came from no where, but was always there, created space   
   when the matter big   
   > banged.  really ?  prove it.   
      
   Energy.   
      
      
   >    yet another unbelievable proof in the scientific realm of no facts equal   
   truth is the fantastic   
   > story that this matter, which was always there, all in one place mind you,   
   exploded into space that   
   > was always there and magically, life began on what they call " early earth "   
   and out of absolute   
   > sterility no less... or maybe life began in the sea... or maybe life began   
   in outer space... lots of   
   > maybe's to choose from.   
      
   Energy.   
      
      
   >   in the Periodic Table of Elements from which everything is comprised we   
   find nothing alive.  yet,   
   > the human body for example, which is made up of certain elements all found   
   in the Periodic Table, is   
   > alive. and, a dead human's body contains the same elements as the living   
   person but one body is   
   > alive and the other is dead.  it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure   
   out that life is not of   
   > this world.   
      
   Life terminology is a human construct.   
   We make if very precious because we are that.   
   We make plant 'life' less precious because we   
   are not that.   
      
   Doesn't the Bible say, man is allowed to kill   
   and gobble up most anything else.   
      
   And life didn't seem so precious when one version   
   of Christianity got in the way of another in the past.   
   Or to the 1984 they imposed upon the world for   
   hundreds of years, with inquisitions.   
      
      
   >    when it comes to real life and the departing from speculation based on   
   dreams ( and cartoons ) we   
   > have a far different beginning than any scientist can concoct... the Living   
   God spoke the universe   
   > into existence and He created living beings and living things from the   
   non-living elements of the   
   > earth.  only in the Lord God is life.  this is a far more rational approach   
   to where it all came   
   > from.  such an approach respects the person as well as the Creator.   
      
   There are plenty of ancient creation myths   
   to choose from. Most don't see past the Sun   
   for bring life to the planet. Sun God comes   
   up, there's life. It's not that deep really.   
      
      
   >   and, everyone knows this though their own disdain for God leads them to   
   deny God as even existing.   
   > but no one can run away from the simple fact that it is God who tells us He   
   and He alone has made   
   > His existence known to every rational person through Creation and on a   
   personal level as well, as He   
   > say in Romans 1:18 and following.   
      
   The Gnostics wrote the recent 'stuff' in the bible.   
   A bunch of spaced out monkeys. High on astrology and mysteries.   
   And a latter lot came along and called it, Literal.   
   Who saw off any Gnostics who tried to reclaim their work.   
      
      
   > the Big Banger's have no self respect.  this is unavoidable for them since   
   Atheists are Atheists   
   > from cradle to grave.  you can read that in your Bible in Ps. 58:3.  as He   
   says... " that which is   
   > known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.   
   "... " so they are without   
   > excuse. " Ro. 1:18-20   
      
   The evolution of variations of different   
   faiths even in Christianity is self evident   
   to everyone except the religious. Who go out   
   of their way to destroy the previous lot.   
      
   >   so then, Evolution is baloney because the Big Bang is baloney. and even   
   without the Big Bang idea   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)