XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.athiesm, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
      
   On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:13:53 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com> wrote:   
      
   >On 10/11/2014 7:08 PM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 15:44:33 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 10/11/2014 12:23 PM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   >>>> On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:06:14 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 10/10/2014 8:48 PM, August Rode wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 10/10/2014 6:52 PM, R.Dean wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 3:33 PM, August Rode wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 2:39 PM, R.Dean wrote:   
   >>>> ...   
   >>>>>>>>> I think the continued use the term "non-existent" instead of   
   >>>>>>>>> "non-material" is arrogance, since non-existent does not apply where   
   >>>>>>>>> Christians are concerned.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> It doesn't? Surely either something exists or it doesn't, right?   
   >>>>>>>> Believing that God exists doesn't automatically mean that God exists,   
   >>>>>>>> right?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Hmm... you don't seem to like answering questions. Is there a particular   
   >>>>>> reason for that?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> We've addressed this before. I've never _claimed_ it does. When you   
   >>>>> demand natural explanations for everything how is this resolved?   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You'll need to show us what other explanations exist and how they work.   
   >>>>   
   >>> When you will accept nothing,  but naturalistic explanations, It seems   
   >>> you are not open to other explanations. But that's fine, it's your   
   >>> right.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> In my view, It's strictly an anti-religious   
   >>>>>>>>> proclivity.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> In the same way that continuing to claim that God exists is a   
   religious   
   >>>>>>>> proclivity?   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Who is this in reference to? Who _claims_ that God exist?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Unless I miss my guess, *all* Christians do. There's really not much   
   >>>>>> reason to be a Christian if God doesn't exist, is there?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> Christians _believe_ God exist. They cannot prove he does. It's a matter   
   >>>>> primarily of faith.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Why do so many of them insist that we believe what they know they cannot   
   >>>> back up?   
   >>>>   
   >>> Maybe a few fundamentalist try, but the mainstream denominations don't   
   >>> usually bother. They do not send missionaries to the western world.   
   >>>   
   >> As long as the fundamentalists are not condemned as heretics by the   
   >> mainstream, the fundies feel empowered. The religion doesn't matter.   
   >> Fundy Christians are no better than the Islamic State.   
   > >   
   >Islamic State? That would be Isis. I don't see Fundy Christian marching   
   >into cities and slaughtering people. I've yet to see a Christian suicide   
   >bomber, nor have I heard of a Fundy Christian who beheaded another   
   >person. While Fundy Christians send missionaries into Africa, and other   
   >places, they do not demand "convert or die". In a Christian land you can   
   >criticize Christianity, Jesus Christ, or the Pope   
   >with no fear being killed. But you will not criticize the Islamic   
   >Prophet in an Islamic State with equal impunity.   
      
       That's one of the starting lines atheists can't get as "far" as. There are   
   starting lines Muslims can't get as "far" as also. One question about both   
   groups is "why not?" With atheists from my pov it seems their Lord Satan is   
   influencing them. With Muslims from my pov it's leaders they've put faith in   
   who   
   encourage them not to consider things in the Koran like:   
      
   [al-Baqarah 2:62] Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed   
   unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians,   
   and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and   
   doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no   
   fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.   
      
   [al-`Ankabut 29:46]   
   And argue not with the People of the Scripture   
   unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do   
   wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us   
   and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him   
   we surrender.   
      
   [Al-Baqarah 2:190] Fight for the sake of God those that   
   fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does   
   not love the aggressors.   
      
   [Al-Nisa 4:92] It is unlawful for a believer to kill another   
   believer except by accident. He that accidentally kills a   
   believer must free one Muslim slave and pay blood-money to   
   the family of the victim, unless they choose to give it away   
   in alms.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)