XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.athiesm, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
   From: Dean"@gmail.com   
      
   On 10/13/2014 6:47 PM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   > On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:41:05 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 10/12/2014 10:12 AM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   >>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 21:13:53 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 10/11/2014 7:08 PM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   >>>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2014 15:44:33 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   >>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> On 10/11/2014 12:23 PM, Free Lunch wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Oct 2014 23:06:14 -0400, "R.Dean" <"R. Dean"@gmail.com>   
   >>>>>>> wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 8:48 PM, August Rode wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 6:52 PM, R.Dean wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 3:33 PM, August Rode wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 10/10/2014 2:39 PM, R.Dean wrote:   
   >>>>>>> ...   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the continued use the term "non-existent" instead of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> "non-material" is arrogance, since non-existent does not apply   
   where   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Christians are concerned.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't? Surely either something exists or it doesn't, right?   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Believing that God exists doesn't automatically mean that God   
   exists,   
   >>>>>>>>>>> right?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Hmm... you don't seem to like answering questions. Is there a   
   particular   
   >>>>>>>>> reason for that?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> We've addressed this before. I've never _claimed_ it does. When you   
   >>>>>>>> demand natural explanations for everything how is this resolved?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> You'll need to show us what other explanations exist and how they work.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>> When you will accept nothing,  but naturalistic explanations, It seems   
   >>>>>> you are not open to other explanations. But that's fine, it's your   
   >>>>>> right.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> In my view, It's strictly an anti-religious   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> proclivity.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> In the same way that continuing to claim that God exists is a   
   religious   
   >>>>>>>>>>> proclivity?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Who is this in reference to? Who _claims_ that God exist?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Unless I miss my guess, *all* Christians do. There's really not much   
   >>>>>>>>> reason to be a Christian if God doesn't exist, is there?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Christians _believe_ God exist. They cannot prove he does. It's a   
   matter   
   >>>>>>>> primarily of faith.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> Why do so many of them insist that we believe what they know they   
   cannot   
   >>>>>>> back up?   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Maybe a few fundamentalist try, but the mainstream denominations don't   
   >>>>>> usually bother. They do not send missionaries to the western world.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> As long as the fundamentalists are not condemned as heretics by the   
   >>>>> mainstream, the fundies feel empowered. The religion doesn't matter.   
   >>>>> Fundy Christians are no better than the Islamic State.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>> Islamic State? That would be Isis. I don't see Fundy Christian marching   
   >>>> into cities and slaughtering people. I've yet to see a Christian suicide   
   >>>> bomber, nor have I heard of a Fundy Christian who beheaded another   
   >>>   
   >>> Take some history lessons. The fact that fundies these days don't kill   
   >>> anyone but abortion providers and poor black men has more to do with the   
   >>> fact that they have been marginalized by society than their lack of   
   >>> desire to do what fundies in power have always done.   
   >>>   
   >> I don't know who you are calling fundies, unless you are referring to   
   >> very few extremist who murdered abortion doctor and burned clinics,   
   >> however the overwhelming majority of Christian do _not_ approve or   
   >> support such extremes.   
   >   
   > Only because millions of Christians have killed millions of other   
   > Christians in the name of Christianity did some sense prevail. After the   
   > catastrophe of Christian theocracy, religion was kicked out of its place   
   > of power.   
    >   
   Not true, European wars were almost always over resources, territory and   
   power almost never over religion.   
   usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh381/Hundred%20Years%20War%20Chronology.htm   
    >   
   Wars over religion is atheist myth  which serves as propaganda designed   
   for the purpose of recruitment and self-justification.   
    >   
   >> Most murdered black people are killed by other black people.   
   >   
   > The police do a fine job, too.   
   >   
    >   
   >>>> person. While Fundy Christians send missionaries into Africa, and other   
   >>>> places, they do not demand "convert or die".   
   >>>   
   >>> More history that you do not know. Europe's Wars among the Christians   
   >>> were fought through most of Europe for a couple of hundred years. The   
   >>> end result was that Christianity lost almost all political power because   
   >>> it proved itself so willing to kill.   
   >>>   
   >> True, the Protestant Reformation was unwelcome by Catholic Rulers in   
   >> countries such as France, Germany and Switzerland so, yes religious   
   >> wars were over religious excesses, excesses which brought about the   
   >> reformation. However, the rampant notion that most wars were religious   
   >> wars is a myth and pales in comparison to non religious wars.   
    >   
    > That has nothing to do with what I said.   
    >   
   Yes, it does, Catholic kings and rulers with the blessings of the Popes   
   brought wars against the reformation in order to stamp out this "heresy".   
   >   
   >> carm.org/religion-cause-war   
   >>>   
   >>>> In a Christian land you can   
   >>>> criticize Christianity, Jesus Christ, or the Pope   
   >>>> with no fear being killed. But you will not criticize the Islamic   
   >>>> Prophet in an Islamic State with equal impunity.   
   >>>   
   >>> Again, you make excuses for your ignorance of history.   
   >>>   
   >> If you are going to engage in personal insults aimed at me, I refuse to   
   >> engage in any further discourse with you.   
   >   
   > Whatever. You can choose to make excuses for the millions of people   
   > killed by Christians on behalf of Christianity and ignore that they were   
   > every bit as vile as Moslems who have the power of government today.   
   >   
   As I pointed out wars caused by non-religious dictators over the past   
   century caused the deaths of far more people than all the atheist   
   labeled "religious wars" in history. So, by logic atheism is far more   
   dangerous to human society than Christianity, based on recent history.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)