XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.athiesm, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
   From: me@nothere.biz   
      
   On 13-November-2014 8:13 AM, Malte Runz wrote:   
      
   > "Ralph" skrev i meddelelsen   
   > news:PeqdnUTIspqeNP_JnZ2dnUVZ5gGdnZ2d@giganews.com...   
   >   
   > (snip)   
   >   
   >> It is to you. In real life....not so much.   
   >   
   > In a nutshell: If somebody believes in the existence of X, then that   
   > belief in itself is evidence of the existence of X, according to   
   > felix_unger. The argument is that nobody would believe in anything if   
   > there was no evidence. And when billions believe in various gods, then   
   > that is very strong evidence. I took it one step further and claimed   
   > that my belief, that gods do not exist, therefor must be evidence for   
   > the non-existence of gods. Seems pretty straight foreward, don't you   
   > think? But apparently I'm the stupid one, with no common sense.   
   >   
      
   actually you're the one who misrepresents what ppl say- as well as being   
   the one with no common sense. if you had any common sense, you would use   
   it. firstly, we have to consider ALL factors about anything to decide   
   what the situation actually is. belief CAN be evidence, as I will try to   
   explain, but 99.9% of cases belief is because of what evidence exists.   
   In the case of Christianity, the religion we are most familiar with in   
   the West, apart from Judaism, the beliefs are based on the bible and   
   it's teaching, and specifically the teachings of Jesus, and what is   
   written about Jesus. but we could then go on to say that the billions of   
   christians are also evidence, because if you (a person) had not heard of   
   the bible, or anything about Christianity, the fact that so many ppl   
   believed something would be evidence that there is something to believe   
   in. and when you take everything about Christianity into consideration..   
   ie. the bible, the testimony of religious experiences, reports of   
   miracles, various texts and books, etc., that is all evidence for the   
   existence of the Christian God. likewise there is evidence for God (in   
   general, if you like), life, the universe, is evidence along with the   
   literally billions of ppl who believe in God in various ways. that is   
   all just plain common sense. but you got one thing right. In my view the   
   fact that atheists exist is also evidence for the non-existence of God,   
   by using the same rationale, the presumption that there must be reasons   
   to believe that. although mur would not agree with this view I think,   
   and he might like to explain why. other evidence for the non-existence   
   of God would be unanswered prayers, if it is claimed that God ALWAYS   
   answers prayer, and scientific discoveries that contradict religious   
   teaching. more evidence still (in my view) is the fact that things that   
   are said to have happened years ago and attributed to God do not happen   
   today, like ppl being raised from the dead for example. so we have to   
   weigh up ALL the evidence that we have to determine what the truth is.   
   we cannot, as atheists do, dismiss testimony as worthless, or accounts   
   of miracles, answered prayers, whatever, or simply claim it isn't   
   evidence. but the bottom line is it all comes down to what one chooses   
   to believe. HTH.   
      
   --   
   rgds,   
      
   Pete   
   -------   
   It's not about Islam!.. http://ausnet.info/pics/islam.png   
   Islam is a religion of peace!.. http://thereligionofpeace.com   
   http://pamelageller.com/   
   “The right to free speech includes the right to offend"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)