XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.atheism, alt.talk.creationism
XPost: sci.skeptic
On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:56:52 -0700, Bob Casanova wrote:
.
>On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:41:33 +1100, the following appeared
>in sci.skeptic, posted by felix_unger :
>
>>On 16-November-2014 5:14 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:29:45 +1100, the following appeared
>>> in sci.skeptic, posted by felix_unger :
>>>
>>>> On 15-November-2014 5:23 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:28:47 +1100, the following appeared
>>>>> in sci.skeptic, posted by felix_unger :
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14-November-2014 11:30 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/11/2014 5:48 AM, mur.@.not. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:09:41 +1100, felix_unger
wrote:
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> On 05-November-2014 6:22 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 5:36 PM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 05-November-2014 10:30 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 10:26 AM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 05-November-2014 10:23 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 8:39 AM, felix_unger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ppl believe because of the evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, we needn't concern ourselves about the fact that people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We need only look at the evidence that causes them to believe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is that evidence?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in regards to what?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You said people believe because of the evidence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So in regards to whatever it is that the people believe.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what you're on about. ppl believe what they do for a
>>>>>>>>>>> reason. the reason for any belief will vary according to the basis
>>>>>>>>>>> for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The reason most people believe in God is that their parents told
them
>>>>>>>>>> to when they had no intellectual defence. I was fortunate not to
>>>>>>>>>> suffer that kind of child abuse.
>>>>>>>>> and so it would follow then that the reason most people don't
>>>>>>>>> believe in God is that their parents told them not to when they had
no
>>>>>>>>> intellectual defence. IOW atheists raise atheists and religious
parents indoctrinate
>>>>>>>>> their children with their beliefs. but a strange thing about
children..
>>>>>>>>> they grow up to be adults who can think for themselves and make their
>>>>>>>>> own decisions about what to believe or not. and of course many
children
>>>>>>>>> are not influenced about theism either way by responsible parents,
such
>>>>>>>>> as mine were, and adults make choices about what they believe
>>>>>>>>> regardless of childhood influences, or lack thereof.
>>>>>>>> There's also the aspect of the lying necessary to insist there is no
>>>>>>>> evidence. The fact is that ALL evidence suggests God does exist since
>>>>>>>> there's NO
>>>>>>>> EVIDENCE he does not. That fact works against what atheists WANT TO
>>>>>>>> believe, and
>>>>>>>> claim to have put their own faith in even as they deny their faith.
>>>>>>>> So the
>>>>>>>> situation is that all evidence says God does exist yet atheists deny
>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>> any, and atheists claim to believe what they say meaning they claim
>>>>>>>> to have
>>>>>>>> faith in their own belief while at the same time denying their own
>>>>>>>> faith. On top
>>>>>>>> of all that stupidity their demand for evidence PROVES they think
>>>>>>>> there should
>>>>>>>> be some proof of God's existence if he does exist yet they have not
the
>>>>>>>> slightest clue what they think it should be, where it should be or
>>>>>>>> why it should
>>>>>>>> be there. They are truly like morons in regards to this topic, yet
>>>>>>>> they like to
>>>>>>>> think of themselves as authorities and feel that their abosute
>>>>>>>> cluelessness is
>>>>>>>> somehow intelligent. As is often the case, just describing the
>>>>>>>> position they're
>>>>>>>> in is hilarious.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My position is more along the lines that if God exists[*], then there
>>>>>>> is either objective evidence of that existence, or there's not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is objective evidence, I'd like to know what it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there's not, then, regardless of whether God actually exists, the
>>>>>>> question is why you'd believe that He does, given the absence of
>>>>>>> objective evidence.
>>>>>> do you accept that people may have/have had real experiences of God, or
>>>>>> are empowered by faith to change their life?
>>>>> I don't know about Sylvia, but *I* accept that there are
>>>>> people who believe they have had such experiences, and that
>>>>> faith (defined as "belief without proof") can certainly be
>>>>> life-changing. Neither of these has anything to do with
>>>>> objective evidence.
>>>> but I didn't say ppl who 'believe they have had such experiences' I said
>>>> 'have had'.
>>> So they have objective evidence which shows that the
>>> experiences were real, and not simply something they believe
>>> happened? If not, how is such belief verified?
>
>>how could ppl prove they have had some experience of/from God?
>
>By having objective evidence that they did, perhaps?
Try to explain WHAT sort of OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE you think there "should be",
WHERE you think it "should be", and WHY you think it "should be" to God's
benefit for him to provide us with it if he exists.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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