XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.athiesm, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
   From: sylvia@not.at.this.address   
      
   On 22/11/2014 1:28 PM, mur.@.not. wrote:   
   > On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:34:55 +1100, Sylvia Else    
   > wrote:   
   > .   
   >> On 15/11/2014 8:19 AM, mur.@.not. wrote:   
   >>> On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:30:20 +1100, Sylvia Else    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>> .   
   >>>> On 7/11/2014 5:48 AM, mur.@.not. wrote:   
   >>>>> On Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:09:41 +1100, felix_unger  wrote:   
   >>>>> .   
   >>>>>> On 05-November-2014 6:22 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 5:36 PM, felix_unger wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 05-November-2014 10:30 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 10:26 AM, felix_unger wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 05-November-2014 10:23 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2014 8:39 AM, felix_unger wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> ppl believe because of the evidence   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> So, we needn't concern ourselves about the fact that people   
   believe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>> We need only look at the evidence that causes them to believe.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> What is that evidence?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> in regards to what?   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> You said people believe because of the evidence.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> So in regards to whatever it is that the people believe.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I'm not sure what you're on about. ppl believe what they do for a   
   >>>>>>>> reason. the reason for any belief will vary according to the basis   
   >>>>>>>> for it.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The reason most people believe in God is that their parents told them   
   >>>>>>> to when they had no intellectual defence. I was fortunate not to   
   >>>>>>> suffer that kind of child abuse.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> and so it would follow then that the reason most people don't believe in   
   >>>>>> God is that their parents told them not to when they had no intellectual   
   >>>>>> defence. IOW atheists raise atheists and religious parents indoctrinate   
   >>>>>> their children with their beliefs. but a strange thing about children..   
   >>>>>> they grow up to be adults who can think for themselves and make their   
   >>>>>> own decisions about what to believe or not. and of course many children   
   >>>>>> are not influenced about theism either way by responsible parents, such   
   >>>>>> as mine were, and adults make choices about what they believe regardless   
   >>>>>> of childhood influences, or lack thereof.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>        There's also the aspect of the lying necessary to insist there is   
   no   
   >>>>> evidence. The fact is that ALL evidence suggests God does exist since   
   there's NO   
   >>>>> EVIDENCE he does not. That fact works against what atheists WANT TO   
   believe, and   
   >>>>> claim to have put their own faith in even as they deny their faith. So   
   the   
   >>>>> situation is that all evidence says God does exist yet atheists deny   
   there is   
   >>>>> any, and atheists claim to believe what they say meaning they claim to   
   have   
   >>>>> faith in their own belief while at the same time denying their own   
   faith. On top   
   >>>>> of all that stupidity their demand for evidence PROVES they think there   
   should   
   >>>>> be some proof of God's existence if he does exist yet they have not the   
   >>>>> slightest clue what they think it should be, where it should be or why   
   it should   
   >>>>> be there. They are truly like morons in regards to this topic, yet they   
   like to   
   >>>>> think of themselves as authorities and feel that their abosute   
   cluelessness is   
   >>>>> somehow intelligent. As is often the case, just describing the position   
   they're   
   >>>>> in is hilarious.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> My position is more along the lines that if God exists[*], then there is   
   >>>> either objective evidence of that existence, or there's not.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> If there is objective evidence, I'd like to know what it is.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> If there's not, then, regardless of whether God actually exists, the   
   >>>> question is why you'd believe that He does, given the absence of   
   >>>> objective evidence.   
   >>>   
   >>>       Not having it I don't have a belief that he exists. But having   
   plenty of   
   >>> evidence in general I do consider the possibility that he does. There's no   
   >>> reason to believe there should be objective evidence. Evidence of the   
   truth of   
   >>> that fact is that those of you who think there should be can't imagine   
   what it   
   >>> should be, where it should be, or why any should be made available to   
   humans in   
   >>> general. That means the absence of it is meaningLESS, and certainly no   
   reason at   
   >>> all to put faith in the possibility that there's no God associated with   
   Earth.   
   >>>   
   >>>> Sylvia   
   >>>>   
   >>>> [*] I've argued elsewhere that objective evidence could in principle   
   >>>> exist even if God does not, but that need not concern us here.   
   >>>   
   >>>       It's certainly something to take into consideration since the reason   
   that   
   >>> there is none could be because God does exist and prevents it from being   
   >>> available. Another area where you are clueless is your inability to   
   imagine the   
   >>> obvious possibility that God exists and deliberately withholds proof of his   
   >>> existence for reasons of his own.   
   >>   
   >> I note that you are unable to debate without using insults.   
   >>   
   >> Your latter scenario would be an example of the second possibility I   
   >> offered, which is that God exists but there is no objective evidence. It   
   >> doesn't matter why there's none - the same question arises - why would   
   >> people believe if there's no objective evidence?   
   >>   
   >> It's no answer to say that there's no reason not to be believe. There   
   >> are any number of things that could be believed in the absence of   
   >> evidence. Some explanation would be required as to why the particular   
   >> choice of belief in God was made.   
   >   
   >      Yes, why do billions of people believe for absolutely no reason?   
      
   It's a question that's been asked many times here.   
      
   > Why don't   
   > they build churches to other xt beings as well?   
      
   So, why don't they?   
      
   > From your position you atheists   
   > are amazingly more intelligent than most people....or at least most people   
   are   
   > amazingly more stupid than you are, to consider the possibility of God's   
   > existence with absolutely no evidence that he exists at all. But from our pov   
   > you atheists are the stupid ones, putting faith in the one possibility that   
   > there's no God associated with Earth while denying that faith at the same   
   time.   
   > Claiming there's no evidence for God's existence when no one would believe he   
   > exists at all if there truly were none.   
      
   Whether no one would believe He exists if there were truly no evidence   
   is very much the point at issue.   
      
   Sylvia.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)