XPost: alt.agnosticism, alt.atheism, alt.talk.creationism
XPost: sci.skeptic
On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:20:25 +1100, felix_unger wrote:
>On 18-January-2015 12:34 PM, Malte Runz wrote:
>
>> "felix_unger" skrev i meddelelsen
>> news:chvtrhFn36rU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> (snip)
>>
>>> I honestly don't see what your/the problem is!
>>
>> It'll be clear very soon.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> faith:
>>>
>>> noun
>>>
>>> 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
>>>
>>> 2.belief that is not based on proof:He had faith that the hypothesis
>>> would be substantiated by fact.
>>>
>>> 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the
>>> firm faith of the Pilgrims.
>>>
>>> 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.:
>>> to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
>>>
>>> 5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
>>>
>>> 6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise,
>>> engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
>>>
>>> 7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise,
>>> oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith
>>> during our recent troubles.
>>>
>>
>> Ready? You can use the word faith to describe 7 different 'things'
>> (for lack of a better word). So, your 'faith is faith' is sinking fast.
>>
>>>
>>> ANY belief requires a degree of faith that the belief is true. ...
>>
>> Some only 0,1% as you pointed out yourself.
>> ("[my lack of belief in pink unicorns] is both faith and reason, but
>> in this case 99.9% reason")
>>
>>> ... if there is a lot of evidence to support a belief then there is
>>> very little faith (or as you say confidence) involved. ...
>>
>> Like that an airplane can fly. 0.1% faith.
>>
>>> ... but without much evidence to support a belief, then a lot of
>>> faith is needed in order to sustain the belief. ...
>>
>> Like a belief that the pink unicorns do exist. 99.9% faith
>>
>>> ... where is the problem?
>>
>> The problem is, that you equate the importance of 0.1% faith it takes
>> to not believe in gods with the 99.9% faith it takes to believe in one
>> of them, when you compare the rationality behind atheism and theism
>> respectively.
>
>okay, so now we're getting somewhere. however, I NEVER said it takes
>only 0.1% faith to not believe in God. Personally I think it takes much
>more than that. anyway you have now agreed with me that it takes faith
>to not believe in God, and to believe in God. wasn't your original claim
>that it takes no faith to not believe in God? I think it was. and what
>does it matter how much faith it takes for either belief anyway? it
>would vary with each person how much faith they had in their belief
>being true. some ppl would be more sure of their belief being true than
>others. the fact remains that ppl have faith that their beliefs are
>true. and the simple reason for that is because, as I explained in the
>airplane example just today, beliefs are about things that are not known
>for certain to be true.
Not for everyone. I have complete faith that if I jump into the air I'll
return to the ground without any danger of drifting away from the planet, and I
also feel that I know for certain that will happen.
>> Only the apologetic for theism will claim that "faith is faith". The
>> rest of us try to be much more specific and careful when we use words
>> with ambiguous meanings.
>
>I believe you're creating a problem where there isn't one simply to try
>to justify not believing in God. and I have faith in that belief being true!
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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