XPost: talk.politics.crypto, alt.politics.howard-dean, alt.flame.rednecks   
   XPost: alt.bullshit   
   From: okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com   
      
   When you depend on someone else to pay for your healthcare, can they also   
   not pay for your healthcare?   If you depend on yourself to pay for your   
   healthcare needs, can they/will they prevent you from getting that care you   
   are willing to pay for?  When you allow the government to pay for your   
   healthcare needs, have you also given them the right to infringe on your   
   freedoms, on the excuse that what you are doing is going to cost them money?   
   Is freedom more important that safety, or is safety more important than   
   freedom?  If you had a choice, would you prefer to be more dependent on   
   someone else, or would you prefer to be less dependent on someone else?   
   What happens in the long run, when the cost of that care, regardless of   
   whether you are talking about the Canadian system, or the American system,   
   when the overall cost of the system is rising because medical inflation is   
   consistently higher than the overall inflation rate?  How can that be   
   sustainable?  Do you want to be able to make the rationing decision, or do   
   you want someone else to make that rationing decision for you?   
      
   "Rightist Slaves"  wrote in message   
   news:Xns9E75B4AE5DCC6fdsa@195.67.212.194...   
      
   As a Canadian living in the United States for the past 17 years, I am   
   frequently asked by Americans and Canadians alike to declare one health   
   care system as the better one.   
      
   Often I'll avoid answering, regardless of the questioner's nationality. To   
   choose one or the other system usually translates into a heated discussion   
   of each one's merits, pitfalls, and an intense recitation of commonly   
   cited statistical comparisons of the two systems.   
      
   Because if the only way we compared the two systems was with statistics,   
   there is a clear victor. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to   
   dispute the fact that Canada spends less money on health care to get   
   better outcomes.   
      
   Yet, the debate rages on. Indeed, it has reached a fever pitch since   
   President Barack Obama took office, with Americans either dreading or   
   hoping for the dawn of a single-payer health care system. Opponents of   
   such a system cite Canada as the best example of what not to do, while   
   proponents laud that very same Canadian system as the answer to all of   
   America's health care problems. Frankly, both sides often get things wrong   
   when trotting out Canada to further their respective arguments.   
      
   As America comes to grips with the reality that changes are desperately   
   needed within its health care infrastructure, it might prove useful to   
   first debunk some myths about the Canadian system.   
      
   Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national   
   health care.   
      
   In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall,   
   Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However,   
   Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond   
   health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher   
   education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the   
   average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent   
   of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.   
      
   Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.   
      
   The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More   
   than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to   
   paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial   
   single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead.   
   Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to   
   decide who gets care and who doesn't when everybody is covered.   
      
   Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the   
   U.S.Ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of   
   the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of   
   its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have   
   inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more   
   expensive than Canada's. Part of the reason for this is uninsured and   
   underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care.   
   People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to   
   see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost   
   considerably more than primary care services.   
      
   What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about   
   $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance   
   premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and   
   deductibles also rise rapidly.   
      
   Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get   
   it.While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed   
   make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In   
   Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they   
   get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should   
   be.   
      
   There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family   
   doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance   
   administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don't get one no matter   
   what your doctor thinks ? unless, of course, you have the money to cover   
   the cost.   
      
   Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There   
   are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable   
   waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective   
   surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a   
   month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for   
   example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but   
   everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such   
   waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and   
   mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the   
   U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society.   
   Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent)   
   admit unmet health care needs.   
      
   Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical   
   care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are   
   those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian   
   goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically   
   necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever   
   reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer   
   wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)