XPost: comp.sys.mac.advocacy, comp.sys.macintrash
From: theletterk@nomail.spymac.com
Grandpa wrote:
> In article
> ,
> Derek Currie wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>I have a friend who is currently working in China. He has found
>>surreptitious ways to communicate back to me what is going on over
>>there. Repression, state funded murder, and daily atrocities summarizes
>>up the situation.
>
>
>
> He he, Derek. Are you sure you mean China? Sounds just like America.
>
>
>
>>There is literally no freedom of information or freedom of speech or
>>freedom of privacy or freedom in general, in China.
>>
>>And what should any decent patriotic American do about it?
>
>
> Why just Americans?
>
>
>
>>We Americans
>
>
> Oh of course. you are one. Please don't be one of those who think the
> world begins and ends at America's borders.
>
>
>
>>founded our country on freedom, we spend billions spreading democracy
>>around the world, we demand it in our speech and protect it with our
>>weapons and soldiers. Of course Chinese citizens have the same
>>fundamental rights as we do!
>
>
> Derek, I just got done defending you in an earlier post. Now I'm taking
> issue with you.
>
> In the opinion of many, America spends far too _much_ time, money and
> effort spreading its vision of "rightness" around the world. Some of us
> would beg you please to stop it.
Many Americans are trying to get our government to stop as well.
>
> For sure, no one I know or read believes that your weapons and soldiers
> are "protecting" freedom. They are projecting America's influence over
> the rest of the world.
We don't even like freedom in our own country. Speak against the
government? Get criticized as a traitor. Certainly better than China,
but the US not exactly a 'freedom loving' country either.
>
> I hate China's policies and attitudes as much as do you and I protest
> them in my own way but I sure feel a similar antipathy to America's
> hegemonic bullshit.
Shouldn't blame that on the people in this country, just the vocal
minorities with money.
>
> Washington criticises countries it thinks are too conservative and
> invests an equal amount of energy criticising countries it thinks are
> too liberal. Funny how America seems to be the only place to get it
> just right.
>
> Freedom in America? I laugh. There is a general shortage of personal
> freeedoms in America (though, I'll grant you, there are more than in
> China). Americans would have a heart attack to see how much more free
> Australia is. Australians feel the same about New Zealand who, in turn,
> would faint at the laissez-faire liberalism in Western Europe. All are
> outdone by Russia where there is more freedom than Americans can ever
> dream about.
Are you kidding me? I'm an American, and I consider our government to be
well on it's way to facism.
>
> Too many Americans are willing to permit others to have only those
> freedoms of which they personally approve. The real test of a free
> society is a willingness to permit others to go about their lives doing
> things of which you or I might personally disapprove.
>
> Let me take an example strictly at random. How about...oh, I don't
> know, the age of consent or the drinking age, two areas that affect the
> everyday lives of millions of people.
>
> Isn't the drinking age in many states of America 21?
All states, IIRC. Might even be a federal law.
> I think I'm right
> but am prepared to be shot down. Why is alcohol such a Big Deal to
> Americans?
The Religious nutjobs. Jesusland is an apt description of many parts of
the country (this state, for example, legally prohibits athiests from
holding public office. Though this does have one advantage--we can't be
called for jury duty, by the same law.)
> Many many countries set the drinking age at 18 yet the sky
> does not fall in. In many countries it's lower and in many that I visit
> there is no minimum.
And there are plenty of Americans who consider this exact same law to be
absurd. I'm one in favor of *no* 'legal limit'. Even if we do decide to
set a limit, it should be lower than the age of majority. If I'm old
enough to die for my country, I should also be old enough to have a beer.
>
> Isn't the age of consent in many states in America 18? Why is sex such
> a Big Deal to Americans?
You are legally considered an adult at 18, in the US. Theoretically,
consentual sex beween adults is not regulated. But you can't give
consent until you're of legal age--without approval from your parents
anyway.
> Many many countries set the age at 16 or 14
> and the sky has still not fallen in. In some countries it's lower and
> in a few that I visit, there is no enforcement in that area at all. I
> have a Moscow friend in his forties. He is in a permanent relationship
> with a girl who was 12 when they came together. The relationship has
> the active support of her mother, his mother and all of the other
> adults around them. Why? Because they are HAPPY! So why not? America
> is, at least on paper, willing to give the same importance to the
> pursuit of happiness as it gives to the liberties you cherish.
The constituion provides no protection for the 'right to be happy'.
>
> Prostitution is legal in many many countries. Why is it illegal in many
> parts of America? Limitation of personal freedoms is an obvious reason,
> along with denial of the pursuit of happiness for some people.
Religious nutcases again.
>
> Holy smoke, Derek, i even have friends in America who have heart
> attacks if a kid drinks a cup of coffee!
>
> And wow if I'm not sick of having that self-inflated asshole, former
> deputy sheriff ‹ I mercifully have forgotten his name but he has a
> drawl so thick, even Dan Rather would have difficulty navigating
> through it ‹ who shows his police videos on television from time to
> time. How he hates speeders!
>
> Maybe his name is John Bunnell.
>
> I have driven many tens of thousands of kilometres on Germany's
> autobahns, routinely over 200 km/h. To the horror of many an American
> law enforcement rote-reciter, it is safe. Speed is not the killer,
> stupidity is the danger. and there sure are not many stupid drivers in
> Germany. There is just too much invested in _real_ driver training.
Which is impractical in the US. Way more people, and a greater need for
personal transportation.
>
> (Of course, they don't drive American cars. That is surely another
> factor).
This is, of course, complete BS.
>
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
