XPost: sci.med.diseases.lyme, alt.support.child-protective-services,   
   alt.support.autism   
   From: johncwirsen@mchsi.com   
      
   Are ya joking Kathleen?   
      
   I mean, seriuosly.   
   Who would 'my' experts be?   
      
   Secondly, I have just as many drug addict fuck ups in my family as I do good   
   guys, and those that have spent time in jail, a good number of them, get   
   better health care than I do.   
      
   One went out and pulled off some awesomely BAD robberies, went to jail, got   
   his teeth fixed, his meds, etc, all for free, meanwhile, I worked a job that   
   had no benefits and from Oct to Jan spent almost $11,000 trying to get a   
   diagnosis for a neurological disorder and pay for pain meds.   
      
   Even John Gotti got better medical care while he was out there than I have   
   ever had.   
   And Charles Manson.   
   And many many more.   
      
   Those ARE the facts.   
      
   You might THINK that prison health care is atrocious, but you are wrong.   
      
   Do ya think it's a spiffy idea for us to incarcerate someone, say, with   
   AIDS, and spend several thousand per month on their helath care when they   
   have progressed to a point that medications really aren't going to help them   
   anymore?   
      
   I don't know much about your 'lyme' crusade, but I know that if you think   
   inmates don't get good health care, you are wrong, and if you think that the   
   rest of us, especially those of us with little to no health care who pay   
   taxes to keep up those same inmates, appreciate the fact that inmates are   
   treated better than we are, you are mistaken.   
      
   And that, dear, IS sticking to the FACTS.   
      
   :)   
   "kathleen"  wrote in message   
   news:1111138734.060627.183280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...   
   No it ain't, it's totally true.   
      
   And you can wait a year for a teeth cleaning.   
   Everything I said about CT prisons is a FACT.   
      
   If yours is a family filled with law enforcement, perhaps   
   you could have your experts look at the Lyme racketeering   
   fraud, and also the MMR induced vaccine damage.   
      
   We *need* such courageous individuals fighting   
   for the rights of sick people who are not criminals.   
      
   Otherwise, chill out and stick to the facts.   
      
   Kathleen   
      
   WitchWirsen wrote:   
   > You are full of shit.   
   > Inmates get better medical care in the state of Missouri than working   
      
   > citizens who have committed no crimes.   
   >   
   > And coming from a family filled with law enforcement, and one LE of   
   over 50   
   > years, I resent your remarks about how they operate.   
   > It's hogwash.   
   >   
   >   
   > "kathleen"  wrote in message   
   > news:1111095050.955861.131750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...   
   > These questions need to be asked about American   
   > prisons in general.  They get notoriously bad healthcare   
   > and dental care.  If you have a crown that needs to be   
   > finished, the dentists will offer you to have the tooth   
   > pulled.   
   >   
   > The inmates die of HIV and no one cares, 85% of the   
   > kitchen workers are HIV infected, and tuberculosis   
   > is not uncommon.   
   >   
   > More than half the prisoners have no teeth.  The only   
   > medical care they get is Seroquel, mostly.  If you are   
   > injured, the medical staff laughs, and gives no treatment.   
   >   
   > No one cares if inmates don't survive.  Think about it.   
   > They don't care if you have doctor's orders or orders from   
   > the court to be treated for anything.  They deny you medical   
   > care.  Period.   
   >   
   > They don't report assaults to anyone.  If one prisoner   
   > attacks another, they turn a blind eye, and record that it   
   > was a fight, even if it was not.  They encourage the aggressors,   
   > because the guards enjoy these fights.  The mentality behind   
   > that is that no one better the hell dare complain to any   
   > authorities about what goes on in the prisons, and if they   
   > think you might complain, they see to it, that you are   
   > not protected from the real psychos there.   
   >   
   > In other words, they use the other violent prisoners as   
   > an intimidation and punitive technique.   
   >   
   > This is not conjecture or hearsay.   
   >   
   > Kathleen   
   >   
   > georgia wrote:   
   > > Washington Post   
   > >   
   > > >From the Medics, Unhealthy Silence   
   > >   
   > > By Stephen N. Xenakis   
   > > Sunday, February 6, 2005; Page B04   
   > >   
   > > The recent confirmation hearings for attorney general nominee   
   Alberto   
   > > R. Gonzales and the trials of the soldiers accused of misconduct at   
   > Abu   
   > > Ghraib have once again brought to the fore questions about the use   
   of   
   > > torture in our war on terrorism. But one aspect that is never   
   > mentioned   
   > > -- one I believe is essential to consider -- are the actions or,   
   more   
   > > to the point, the apparent inaction of medical personnel at both   
   > > Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.   
   > >   
   > > Detention facilities like these typically have fully staffed   
   clinics   
   > > with primary care physicians, nurses and a host of other support   
   > > personnel to treat American soldiers as well as detainees. Their   
   > common   
   > > duty -- from corpsmen with basic medical skills training to   
   > physicians   
   > > with leadership positions -- is to provide care according to high   
   > > standards of medical practice to all who need it and, of course, to   
   > > report any signs of physical or psychological abuse.   
   > >   
   > >   
   > > The Post's opinion and commentary section runs every Sunday.   
   > >   
   > > · Outlook Section   
   > >   
   > >   
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   > >   
   > > As a physician holding the title of brigadier general by the time I   
   > > retired in 1998, I directed major medical support efforts during   
   the   
   > > 1991 Gulf War and have seen the Army leadership up close. So, as   
   the   
   > > scandals at Abu Ghraib in Iraq and Guantanamo in Cuba unfolded, I   
   > > wondered why we had heard so little from the medics. When faced   
   with   
   > > the twin pressures of performing their military duty and providing   
   > > treatment, did the staffs at these facilities turn a blind eye to   
   the   
   > > physical and mental torture inflicted on the prisoners, or perhaps   
   > even   
   > > collude with interrogators? There are few other explanations for   
   why   
   > > they didn't report suspicious findings from the examinations of the   
   > > detainees. Unless, of course, those reports were suppressed.   
   > >   
   > > I've also wondered whether the senior medical leadership of the   
   Army,   
   > > Navy and Air Force knew of the abuses -- and whether their reports   
   > > could have been concealed.   
   > >   
   > > My growing concern has been reinforced by an appalling case of glib   
   > > reasoning, in which the office of the deputy assistant secretary of   
   > > defense for health affairs, as reported in a recent issue of the   
   New   
   > > England Journal of Medicine, has taken the position that the   
   medical   
   > > personnel at these facilities had not breached the Hippocratic oath   
   > > because there was not a recognized doctor-patient relationship. The   
   > > NEJM reported that the deputy assistant secretary endorsed the view   
      
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