XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.animals.dog, rec.pets.dogs.behavior   
      
   On Mon, 05 Sep 2005  Goo wrote:   
      
   >Consider the mental life of a dog, for example.   
   >Presumably, dogs have a rich array of experiences (they   
   >feel pain and pleasure, the tree has a particular   
   >"look" to it) and they may even have beliefs about the   
   >world (Fido believes that his supper dish is empty).   
   >Who knows, they may even have special "inner   
   >experiences" that accompany those beliefs. However, if   
   >we assume that dogs are not self-aware in the stronger   
   >sense,   
      
   we still have no reason to believe they are not self aware   
   to some extent. In fact, the idea that they are not is quite   
   a stupid one and is not supported in any way.   
      
   >then they will lack the ability to critically   
   >reflect upon their beliefs and experiences   
      
       Which is obviously not the case, since they are capable   
   of learning.   
      
   >and thus   
   >will be unable to have other beliefs about their   
   >pleasure or their supper-dish-belief (what philosophers   
   >call "second-order beliefs" or "meta-beliefs"). That is   
   >to say, they may lack the ability to judge that   
   >pleasure may be an unworthy objective in a certain   
   >situation   
      
       Which has absolutely  nothing to do with whether or not   
   they are aware of themselves.   
      
   >or to judge that their belief that the supper   
   >dish is empty is unjustified.   
      
       Do you have the ability to judge that your belief that the   
   empty dinner plate is empty is unjustified, Goo? Explain.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)