XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.california
On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:33:55 -0500, AlleyOop@nul.vod wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:30:55 -0700, Dutch wrote:
>
>>John Mayson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Jun 2009, K wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Mayson wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2009, K wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It isn't an issue at all killing carrots. The problem for people
>>>>>> who claim to be vegetarian for ethical reasons is that animals are
>>>>>> killed in the course of producing vegetable crops. There is no such
>>>>>> thing as produce that is free of animal deaths.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never killed anything with my garden, therefor there is such a
>>>>> thing as produce that is free from animal deaths.
>>>>
>>>> You don't eat only food from your garden. You eat some commercially
>>>> grown and distributed food, too. The production of that food causes
>>>> animals to die.
>>>
>>> No.... the OP claimed "animals are killed in the course of producing
>>> vegetable crops". I'm pointing out no animals have ever been killed by
>>> my garden.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>While it is possible to raise crops by hand without killing
>>animals, it is not possible to feed the human race with
>>individually hand-tended gardens. Also, even most small
>>gardens must be defended from pests like slugs.
>>
>
>And rabbets and in some areas deer.
>
>
>>I understand the squeamishness people feel about killing
>>animals, but at a certain point it becomes a pathology.
>
>People who kill animals for food do not enjoy the act. If it's not
>done they don't eat!
· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:
tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings
The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
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* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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