XPost: alt.philosophy, alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.global-warming
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:27:38 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
>
> wrote in message news:a2a7r5h3e738oreuh7hvvjm9pgrg4506iq@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 15:31:21 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wrote in message news:vri4r5hp6evfk04olmqkemcsbumj5htemu@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 11:39:57 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote
>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:54:00 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote> Veg*ns and people who have faith in the gross
>>>>>>>mi$nomer
>>>>>>>> "animal rights"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's not a misnomer. It's often misguided, maybe, but there is no
>>>>>>>misnomer.
>>>>>>>To call it a misnomer is to suggest that their vision of a world
>>>>>>>without
>>>>>>>livestock somehow violates some animal rights or causes harm or loss
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>animals, and that is completely false.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, what it suggests is that bringing about the elimination
>>>>>> of domestic animals is completely different than it would be to
>>>>>> provide them with rights, and we know it. Since the objective is
>>>>>> completely different than what the name suggests:
>>>>>
>>>>>It's not different at all, everyone knows what the AR movement wants.
>>>>>They
>>>>>want *no livestock to be born*, NOT livestock eliminated.
>>>>
>>>> They certainly do want them eliminated.
>>>
>>>THEY want that they never exist in the first place, YOU want them
>>>"eliminated", i.e. killed,
>>
>> You need to explain why we should consider that ethically
>> superior to providing livestock with decent lives.
>
>I don't need to do anything of the kind
LOL!!!!! Neither can "they". LOL!!!!
>because I never made that argument.
>
>You're the one lodging this complaint against vegans that they are being
>selfish in their lifestyles by denying life to animals by not consuming
>meat. YOU need to explain this complaint, what animals are being harmed that
>would make a vegan "selfish" for advocating "elimination".
>
>>
>>>so you can eat them.
>>>
>>>What THEY want harms no animal.
>>
>> Vegans contribute to the majority of the same animal deaths
>> that most people do. All they avoid are things that provide life
>> and death for livestock.
>
>That's not the issue.
Why are you opposed to seeing that issue taken into
consideration?
>What they want, the "elimination" of livestock breeds,
>would not harm a single animal. To call their desire selfish or to complain
>that it "denies life" to animals, is ludicrous.
It is completely and purely selfish, and that fact is
glaringly obvious.
>>>What WE want kills animals, not to mention
>>>causes many to suffer.
>>>
>>>You are not establishing any moral high ground here nitwit.
>>>
>>>> Stop lying. But then
>>>> again I guess if you were to stop lying, you couldn't respond at
>>>> all.
>>>
>>>What I just said was the truth.
>>
>> No you lied like you always do, since animals are killed in
>> crop production, etc....
>
>SO WHAT??
It's just more of your lying.
>Those are not the animals under discussion here.
Why do you want to disregard the animals who die for your
veggies?
>>>>>Stop being so
>>>>>fucking stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>>You know you are such a fucking hypocrite. YOU want these animals
>>>>>eliminated. You want them prodded up ramps, bolted throught the head,
>>>>>hung
>>>>>by the legs, gutted and cut up into pieces so you can eat them. You have
>>>>>a
>>>>>lot of nerve criticizing someone who doesn't want to see animals born
>>>>
>>>> · Because there are so many different situations
>>>> involved in the raising of meat animals, it is completely
>>>> unfair to the animals to think of them all in the same
>>>> way, as "ARAs" appear to do. To think that all of it is
>>>> cruel, and to think of all animals which are raised for
>>>> the production of food in the same way, oversimplifies
>>>> and distorts one's interpretation of the way things
>>>> really are. Just as it would to think that there is no
>>>> cruelty or abuse at all.
>>>>
>>>> Beef cattle spend nearly their entire lives outside
>>>> grazing, which is not a bad way to live. Veal are
>>>> confined to such a degree that they appear to have
>>>> terrible lives, so there's no reason to think of both
>>>> groups of animals in the same way.
>>>> Chickens raised as fryers and broilers, and egg
>>>> producers who are in a cage free environment--as well as
>>>> the birds who parent all of them, and the birds who parent
>>>> battery hens--are raised in houses, but not in cages. The
>>>> lives of those birds are not bad. Battery hens are confined
>>>> to cages, and have what appear to be terrible lives, so
>>>> there is no reason to think of battery hens and the other
>>>> groups in the same way. ·
>>>
>>>I agree with part of that, but it is all beside the point, you still can't
>>>criticize vegetarians for wishing that these animals never exist in the
>>>first place, it is not a "misnomer"
>>
>> Suggesting that what misnomer addicts want would provide
>> livestock with rights is a lie, and refering to the elimination
>> objective as "animal rights" is a horrible misnomer as well as
>> being a sort of lie.
>
>It's not a misnomer or a lie.
It's both a lie and a misnomer, quite obviously.
>It is simply a desire that there be no animals
>living in captivity, and that WOULD create a situation where animals had
>rights, i.e. the right to live without being in captivity.
>
>>>or anything culpable, it's just their
>>>preference.
>>
>> I quoted you explaining why they prefer to lie.
>
>They're not lying,
Misnomer addicts are the most dishonest people I've ever
encountered.
>misguided maybe, deluded maybe, but not lying, and not
>selfish towards animals.
Their desire to eliminate domestic animals is based on pure
selfishness.
>>>>>to be
>>>>>treated that way. Just enjoy your fucking meat like I do and stop being
>>>>>such
>>>>>a complete moron.
>>>>>
>>>>>> "The vast majority of the financial support for PeTA comes
>>>>>> from people who do NOT subscribe to the complete elimination
>>>>>> of animal use." - Dutch
>>>>>
>>>>>SO FUCKING WHAT?
>>>>
>>>> So obviously you're aware that they are tricking people into
>>>> donating money to something they don't agree with
>>>
>>>I never said they tricked anyone,
>>
>> LOL! It was a shock when you explained why they lie to begin
>> with, but to go into details like that about the lie is certainly
>> more than anyone could ever expect from you.
>
>They aren't lying,
In contrast to that lie here is an example of PeTA blatantly
lying horribly to children telling them that cows are counting on
them, and also lying that not eating cheese will somehow be
"saving" cows and their calves:
_________________________________________________________
Here you come to save the day!
[...]
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
|
