XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   XPost: alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: daletx@gnusguy.com   
      
   Fred C. Dobbs wrote:   
   > On 5/28/2010 10:45 AM, DT wrote:   
   >> Fred C. Dobbs wrote:   
   >>> It can't be. To talk about "better than" or "worse than" is   
   >>> necessarily to be comparing two states of welfare, but there is only   
   >>> one state of welfare in this putative comparison. It is abject   
   >>> nonsense to suggest a person might rationally think he is "better off"   
   >>> for existing rather than never existing, because the flip side is that   
   >>> the person would be "worse off" for never existing - but there   
   >>> wouldn't be a person to experience the "worse off" condition if the   
   >>> person never existed.   
   >>>   
   >>> This is not the same as a person who exists with a miserable welfare   
   >>> thinking he'd prefer to die. Even then, it makes no sense for the   
   >>> person to think he'd be "better off" if he ended his existence,   
   >>> because again, there would be no entity to experience the better   
   >>> welfare. It still can make sense for the person with a miserable   
   >>> welfare to want to die, if his existence is intolerable to him.   
   >>   
   >> OK, how about this: everybody...and I mean *EVERYBODY*... admit, right   
   >> here, right now, that Fred is right.   
   >   
   > Well, you could, if you wish, attempt to show I'm wrong.   
      
   I'd have to freakin' *care*.  I don't.  You've made it clear.  There is   
   no way to prove, logically, that existence is better than nonexistence.   
     Conversely, there's no way to prove that nonexistence is better than   
   existence.   
      
   Personally, I'm just tired of it.  How long has this argument been going   
   on?  And every time I figure out which cross-posted thread to ignore,   
   somebody (I ain't pointin' any fingers) goes and starts YET ANOTHER THREAD.   
      
   You win, Fred.  You're right.  Give us your address, and I'll send you a   
   nice wall plaque commemorating the event.   
      
   DT   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)