XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.zen, alt.buddha.short.fat.guy   
   XPost: alt.philosophy.zen   
   From: niunian@ymail.com   
      
   On Sun, 30 May 2010 15:47:52 -0700, "Dutch"  wrote:   
      
   >   
   >"niunian"  wrote in message   
   >news:dmk506t15o45k2360p26isjt0pa47fhmuv@4ax.com...   
   >> On Sun, 30 May 2010 13:55:40 -0700, "Dutch"  wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>"niunian"  wrote   
   >>>> On Sun, 30 May 2010 12:09:47 -0700, "Dutch"  wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>"niunian"  wrote   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>>What I am describing is practical and real. It is taught by sports   
   >>>>>>>psychologists and is the basis for most spiritual practices such as   
   >>>>>>>Yoga,   
   >>>>>>>meditation or Tai Chi. It centres around being aware/present in the   
   >>>>>>>moment,   
   >>>>>>>the here and now, being IN the process, not in the thinking mind,   
   >>>>>>>distracted   
   >>>>>>>worrying about the mechanics of the swing, the rough or miss-hitting   
   >>>>>>>or   
   >>>>>>>what   
   >>>>>>>your score is going to be or what others are thinking about you, etc..   
   >>>>>>>As   
   >>>>>>>such it is a freeing experience, it the struggle of the ego/mind that   
   >>>>>>>drains   
   >>>>>>>your energy. The same applies in the rest of life. When I have been   
   >>>>>>>lucky   
   >>>>>>>enough to play golf or tennis or pool in this state I have always   
   >>>>>>>performed   
   >>>>>>>at the top of my abilities and ended up feeling refreshed and clear   
   >>>>>>>headed.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>Describe what you're talking about, so far you've been vague.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>And by the way, I love "everyday living" as much as any part of life.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> I think the difference between you and me is, while you are talking   
   >>>>>> about how to "practice" Tai Chi, I'm talking about how to "fight" as a   
   >>>>>> Tai Chi master.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>Now you're resorting to semantics. "Practicing" as in an art or   
   >>>>>discipline   
   >>>>>like Tai Chi, Karate, Yoga, meditation, golf, driving a car, or   
   >>>>>medicine,   
   >>>>>means to perform that discipline.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Perhaps you want to talk about art or discipline, but I'm only   
   >>>> interested in the practical mean to win a battle or game.   
   >>>   
   >>>I am talking about peak performance, winning is a by-product, not part of   
   >>>the process. You talk about "battle", that brings up the notion of   
   >>>adrenaline, combat, aggression, how are there these compatible with golf?   
   >>   
   >> If you only want to play golf for entertainment, then winning is   
   >> indeed just a by-product.   
   >   
   >Winning is always a by-product. If winning is your focus then you will never   
   >play your best because it is not something you can control.   
   >   
   >The only thing you can control is your own execution, your own actions and   
   >reactions in the moment.   
      
   Winning is the goal of the game. It has nothing to do with control. I   
   don't understand why you don't want to face the fact and be honest   
   about it.   
      
   >   
   >>In that case, you can do whatever you want,   
   >> and it's perfectly fine with me. However, if you want to win some   
   >> price in golf or any other game, then it becomes a battle that you   
   >> must fight in order to win. Peak performance means nothing in a   
   >> relaxed friendly game. Peak performance is only needed in a real   
   >> competition.   
   >   
   >Peak performance is something to be strived for at any time, it doesn't   
   >matter what the circumstances. You don't win a golf game by "fighting", you   
   >win by acheiving a better score than other players. Since you can't control   
   >what score they make, you don't control winning. In fact you can't control   
   >your own score either, that is an illusion. All you can control is how well   
   >you execute each shot. If Mark O'Meara is in a tournament I'm not going to   
   >win no matter how well I play. In a football game you don't control winning   
   >either, you control how well you execute your assignment on each play.   
      
   I have not talked about control at all. I don't know how you get that   
   idea. Apparently you have completely missed my simple point in the   
   above. I don't know why.   
      
   >   
   >>> I think you   
   >>>> over complicate the issue too much with those concepts. They are not   
   >>>> necessary in actual battle.   
   >>>   
   >>>There are no complications, no concepts in the zone, no score, no winning   
   >>>or   
   >>>losing, only the process. It is purely the individual totally immersed in   
   >>>the process.   
   >>>   
   >>>These words are not the zone, they are just an admittedly imperfect way of   
   >>>describing it.   
   >>   
   >> Well, I don't think you need to describe it or even think about it. If   
   >> you are fully focused in the game, you wouldn't notice any of it   
   >> anyway. By conceptualizing it, you only make it an unnecessary   
   >> distraction.   
   >   
   >You're confusing having a conversation about it and doing it. In order to   
   >communicate the idea it needs to be put into words.   
      
   The problem is, by trying to describe it, you are missing the real   
   point. There are certain feelings people will experience when they are   
   in deep concentration. It happens in Tai Chi, in yoga, and all the   
   other things. But those things are not important. They are to be   
   acknowledged and then forgotten. If you pursue those feelings, you are   
   going to the wrong direction. Your focus should not be the flow or the   
   zone. Your focus should always be the game alone.   
      
   >   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>>> In everyday practice, what you say sounds good enough,   
   >>>>>> but in actual combat, it's entirely another story. The problem I'm   
   >>>>>> trying to raise here is, you can't fight effortlessly in an actual   
   >>>>>> combat. In actual combat, there is no "flow", there is no "zone", and   
   >>>>>> there is no time to worry about "being".   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>I am afraid you're missing the point badly. There is a flow to life's   
   >>>>>energy   
   >>>>>and there is a zone where one is in tune with that flow and there are   
   >>>>>many   
   >>>>>states where one is not. The zone is a well known phenomenon. And as I   
   >>>>>already clearly stated, there is no "worry" in being, no time either.   
   >>>>>Worrying is thinking and there is no thinking in the zone.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> These are all your beliefs. They only exist because you want them to   
   >>>> exist.   
   >>>   
   >>>They are my beliefs for many reasons, including considerable reading and   
   >>>years of personal experience. The beliefs I "want to exist" as you so   
   >>>glibly   
   >>>put it, are those beliefs which fit my experience and that of those who   
   >>>know   
   >>>about the subject. If you present anything substantial to add to or modify   
   >>>those beliefs then I will incorporate them into those beliefs which I   
   >>>"want   
   >>>to exist".   
   >>   
   >> Too bad. I want you to forget about it to become truly focused.   
   >   
   >Why? I have stated repeatedly that when in "the zone" there is no thought.   
   >The right ideas lead to the desired state which leads to the desired   
   >outcome.   
   >   
   >This here now is not the zone, this *talking about* the zone. Talking about   
   >the mental side of performance is useful to help one eliminate mental   
   >mistakes and bad habits and establish good ones.   
   >   
   >And you still are not articulating what you mean by "truly focused" although   
      
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