XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.agnosticism, alt.atheism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
      
   On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:52:17 -0700, Goo wrote:   
      
   >*you*, Goo, think of them as existing   
   >"in some sense"   
      
   "The only way that the concept "benefit from existence"   
   can begin to make sense semantically is if one assumes   
   a pre-existent state" - Goo   
      
   ""Pre-existence":  this is Goo's problem, and only Goo's   
   problem." - Goo   
      
   "Whether or not some entity enjoys life once it does exist   
   is *NOT* the topic." - Goo   
      
   "you still cannot demonstrate, ever, why it is "beneficial"   
   for souls to incarnate and experience this meaning." - Goo   
      
   "We are not and never were talking about benefits for   
   existing entities" - Goo   
      
   "When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the   
   existence we know, we don't know if that move improves   
   its welfare, degrades it, or leaves it unchanged." - Goo   
      
   "EVEN WITH the very best animal welfare conditions one   
   might provide:  they STILL might not be as good as the   
   "pre-existence" state was" - Goo   
      
   "Coming into existence is not a benefit to them:  it does   
   not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo   
      
   "Unless we know with certainty that the entity's welfare   
   improves when it moves from "pre-existence" into the   
   life we can detect" - Goo   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)