XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, alt.agnosticism, alt.atheism   
   XPost: sci.skeptic   
      
   On Sat, 25 Aug 2012, Goo continued to agree:   
      
   >On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:08:24 -0400, dh@. wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:22:37 -0700, Goo agreed:   
   >>   
   >>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:10:32 -0400, dh@. wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:52:17 -0700, Goo agreed:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>*you*, Goo, think of them as existing   
   >>>>>"in some sense"   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"The only way that the concept "benefit from existence"   
   >>>>can begin to make sense semantically is if one assumes   
   >>>>a pre-existent state" - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>""Pre-existence":  this is Goo's problem, and only Goo's   
   >>>>problem." - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"Whether or not some entity enjoys life once it does exist   
   >>>>is *NOT* the topic." - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"you still cannot demonstrate, ever, why it is "beneficial"   
   >>>>for souls to incarnate and experience this meaning." - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"We are not and never were talking about benefits for   
   >>>>existing entities" - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the   
   >>>>existence we know, we don't know if that move improves   
   >>>>its welfare, degrades it, or leaves it unchanged." - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"EVEN WITH the very best animal welfare conditions one   
   >>>>might provide:  they STILL might not be as good as the   
   >>>>"pre-existence" state was" - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"Coming into existence is not a benefit to them:  it does   
   >>>>not make them better off than before they existed." - Goo   
   >>>>   
   >>>>"Unless we know with certainty that the entity's welfare   
   >>>>improves when it moves from "pre-existence" into the   
   >>>>life we can detect" - Goo   
   >>>   
   >>>You, Goo, think the animals "pre-exist" - not in dispute.   
   >>   
   >>    "they STILL might not be as good as the "pre-existence"   
   >>state was" - Goo   
   >   
   >You, Goo, think the animals "pre-exist" - not in dispute.   
      
       "We are not and never were talking about benefits for   
   existing entities" - Goo   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)