eae74cfa   
   XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, rec.sport.football.college,   
   rec.food.cooking   
   XPost: alt.gothic   
      
   On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:53:41 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   wrote:   
      
   >On Oct 18, 8:14 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   >> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   >> wrote:   
   >> >On Oct 16, 7:25 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   >> >> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:14:04 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   >> >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >> >On Oct 15, 11:14 pm, Goo wrote:   
   >>   
   >> >> >> Rupert is off doing telemarketing in Germany at present.   
   >>   
   >> >> >I am doing a post-doc at the University of M nster.   
   >>   
   >> >> Here's an easy experiment for you, but please be honest about the   
   results.   
   >> >> Ask some of the students if they can comprehend the distinction between   
   lives   
   >> >> which are of positive value and lives which are of negative value for   
   different   
   >> >> beings.   
   >>   
   >> >It's a bit difficult to do that. I don't have any teaching duties and   
   >> >I don't speak German very well. Would you like me to ask some of my   
   >> >colleagues?   
   >>   
   >>     Yes please. And if they can come up with a better definition than mine   
   I'd   
   >> like to learn about that too, but so far I believe mine covers it as well   
   as it   
   >> can without causing excessive restrictions on the idea. No offense, but I   
   >> consider "good" to be an excessive restriction.   
   >>   
   >   
   >I asked Petra and Stefan. Petra said "What does he mean by positive   
   >value?" I tried to give them some idea of what I thought you meant by   
   >it.   
      
       What did you tell them?   
      
   >They both seemed to think it would be pretty hard to determine   
   >whether a cow has a life of positive value,   
      
       Not for a person who is familiar with the cow and its life. You can bet   
   there are lots of farmers who have a pretty good idea about how their animals   
   are doing and whether they are overly stressed or not. Here's something I feel   
   sure you've heard before but can't afford to appreciate: Cow produce milk a lot   
   better when they aren't stressed and unhappy.   
      
   >and they also didn't think   
   >that your argument against vegetarianism was very strong (although   
   >neither of them are vegetarians).   
      
       Maybe they think it will be better when all meat is grown in vats or   
   something and there are no more livestock animals in existence, but so far I   
   don't feel that it would be since I believe many livestock have lives of   
   positive value and pretty much all of them COULD if people in general gave a   
   shit. But not only do people in general not give a shit, but even in here where   
   people discuss the subject, appreciation for the animals' lives is attacked by   
   eliminationists who dishonestly try to present the impression that they DO give   
   a shit. So now that we're on that subject it's another excellent reason for the   
   Goos to lie about their position. To begin with it was all eliminationists who   
   attacked having appreciation, but then the Goober came along and soon recruited   
   "Dutch" in an attempt to make it look like most of the opposition to   
   appreciation is being made by the very people who should be able to appreciate   
   it the most. LOL...making the position that much more amusing from my pov.   
   Everything to do with the misnomer is just lame and idiotic from my pov, and   
   has   
   been since I first learned anything about it back in grade school. In fact I   
   learned about the misnomer at just about the same time we were learning to   
   appreciate the distinction between lives of positive and negative value...about   
   the fifth or sixth grade. I wonder if you'll ever learn that........   
      
   >> >> The distinction applies to humans as well as other animals, and wildlife   
   >> >> as well as domestic animals. See if any of the subjects are unable to   
   relate to   
   >> >> the distinction in ANY group of animals or humans. If they say that they   
   have no   
   >> >> problem with it in any group as I expect, then you might tell them that   
   you   
   >> >> still can't appreciate it for any creatures at all and see what they say   
   about   
   >> >> that. Their reaction to you telling them that is something I'm quite   
   interested   
   >> >> in, as you should be too. The people I've discussed it with have never   
   had any   
   >> >> problem with the concept and agree that someone who has a problem with   
   it is   
   >> >> extremely unlikely to be able to obtain a PhD, and possibly even a   
   driver's   
   >> >> license.   
   >>   
   >> >I've never tried to get a driver's license.   
   >>   
   >>     And that doesn't slow you down?   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)