762f456c   
   XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, rec.sport.football.college,   
   rec.food.cooking   
   XPost: alt.gothic   
   From: rupertmccallum@yahoo.com   
      
   On Oct 22, 8:02 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   > On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 06:53:41 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   > >On Oct 18, 8:14 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   > >> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   > >> wrote:   
   > >> >On Oct 16, 7:25 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   > >> >> On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 03:14:04 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   > >> >> wrote:   
   >   
   > >> >> >On Oct 15, 11:14 pm, Goo wrote:   
   >   
   > >> >> >> Rupert is off doing telemarketing in Germany at present.   
   >   
   > >> >> >I am doing a post-doc at the University of M nster.   
   >   
   > >> >> Here's an easy experiment for you, but please be honest about the   
   results.   
   > >> >> Ask some of the students if they can comprehend the distinction   
   between lives   
   > >> >> which are of positive value and lives which are of negative value for   
   different   
   > >> >> beings.   
   >   
   > >> >It's a bit difficult to do that. I don't have any teaching duties and   
   > >> >I don't speak German very well. Would you like me to ask some of my   
   > >> >colleagues?   
   >   
   > >> Yes please. And if they can come up with a better definition than mine I'd   
   > >> like to learn about that too, but so far I believe mine covers it as well   
   as it   
   > >> can without causing excessive restrictions on the idea. No offense, but I   
   > >> consider "good" to be an excessive restriction.   
   >   
   > >I asked Petra and Stefan. Petra said "What does he mean by positive   
   > >value?" I tried to give them some idea of what I thought you meant by   
   > >it.   
   >   
   >     What did you tell them?   
   >   
      
   I told them that I think it's got something to do with the idea of a   
   life which contains a balance of pleasant experiences over aversive   
   experiences.   
      
   > >They both seemed to think it would be pretty hard to determine   
   > >whether a cow has a life of positive value,   
   >   
   >     Not for a person who is familiar with the cow and its life. You can bet   
   > there are lots of farmers who have a pretty good idea about how their animals   
   > are doing and whether they are overly stressed or not. Here's something I   
   feel   
   > sure you've heard before but can't afford to appreciate: Cow produce milk a   
   lot   
   > better when they aren't stressed and unhappy.   
   >   
      
   The measures which the modern dairy industry take to ensure that cows   
   produce milk most certainly make them very stressed and unhappy. I've   
   already given you information about that.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)