2ad0f263   
   XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian   
   From: rupertmccallum@yahoo.com   
      
   On Oct 24, 9:37 pm, dh@. wrote:   
   > On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:16:29 -0700 (PDT), Rupert    
   > wrote:   
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   > >On Oct 24, 12:09 am, dh@. wrote:   
   > >> On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 14:16:14 -0700, Just Say No  wrote:   
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   > >> >It's one thing to eliminate animal slime/protein from your diet, and   
   > >> >substitute vegetable slime/protein. There must be a major difference   
   > >> >between the two types of slimes.   
   >   
   > >> >But to claim that you are avoiding doing harm to animals and it is   
   > >> >founded on the principal of ahimsa is total bullshit.   
   >   
   > >> Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of   
   > >> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of   
   > >> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.   
   > >> What they try to avoid are products which provide life   
   > >> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have   
   > >> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products   
   > >> in order to be successful:   
   >   
   > >> tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water   
   > >> filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,   
   > >> insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,   
   > >> heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,   
   > >> gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,   
   > >> plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane   
   > >> wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings   
   >   
   > >> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it   
   > >> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it   
   > >> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for   
   > >> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume   
   > >> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent   
   > >> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the   
   > >> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for   
   > >> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious   
   > >> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by   
   > >> being vegan.   
   > >> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised   
   > >> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people   
   > >> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well   
   > >> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people   
   > >> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm   
   > >> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and   
   > >> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is   
   > >> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings   
   > >> derived from grass raised animals.   
   >   
   > >We examined the evidence for this assertion in the past, and found it   
   > >was totally unsubstantiated. You should stop saying it.   
   >   
   >     I believe it's true, and you should start saying it.   
   >   
      
   It's not true. Gaverick Matheny estimates that getting the daily   
   requirement of protein from a serving of soy products would lead to   
   0.001 deaths. If the daily requirement of protein from beef is a   
   quarter of a pound, then your own estimates give us that a daily   
   serving of beef leads to 0.0005 deaths. That's not a factor of   
   "hundreds". Gaverick Matheny's estimates can't be off by a factor of   
   hundreds.   
      
   It's complete nonsense, and you should stop saying it.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)