XPost: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian, can.politics   
   From: george@si.not   
      
   On 9/9/2013 4:46 PM, Dhu on Gate wrote:   
   > On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 16:01:16 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 9/9/2013 2:50 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Gloo* - stupid,   
   >> illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and   
   >> doing nothing but wasting time ever since, lied:   
   >>   
   >>> On 9/6/2013 2:44 PM, George Plimpton wrote:   
   >>>> On 9/6/2013 2:18 PM, Fuckwit David Harrison - *Gloo* - stupid,   
   >>>> illiterate cracker and convicted felon, defeated entirely in 1999 and   
   >>>> doing nothing but wasting time ever since, lied:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On 9/5/2013 7:13 AM, George Plimpton wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 9/5/2013 3:00 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Sep 2013 00:59:26 -0700, George Plimpton wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> There is no importance at all to the "getting".  If some livestock   
   >>>>>>>> animals "get to experience life", that isn't good for them; and if no   
   >>>>>>>> livestock animals "get to experience life", that isn't bad for any   
   >>>>>>>> animals.  If livestock animals exist, then experiencing a good life is   
   >>>>>>>> better for them than experiencing a bad life.  It is not "better" for   
   >>>>>>>> the animals to experience a good life than never to live at all.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> The question is whether it is good for us humans to have domestic   
   >>>>>>> animals, and   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> No, that isn't the question.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>       That is ALL you   
   >>>>   
   >>>> No, *Gloo*.  The question is if there is anything to "consider" about   
   >>>> livestock animals "getting to experience life" versus never existing,   
   >>>> and we have seen that the answer to the question is "no."   
   >>>>   
   >>>> You're just wasting time, *Gloo*.  You lost.  Go do something else.   
   >>>   
   >>>       You don't have any idea how you could even pretend to have found   
   that out   
   >>   
   >> Coming into existence - "getting to experience life" - cannot be a   
   >> benefit because it doesn't improve the entity's welfare.   
   >>   
   >> You're just wasting time, *Gloo*.  You lost.  Go do something else.   
   >   
   > That is only 'cause you don't consider   
   > your existence to be a benefit to   
   > anyone, including yourself.   
      
   No entity's existence is a benefit to itself.  It can't be - it didn't   
   improve the entity's welfare, and that's the definition of a benefit.   
      
   Now fuck off, and stay fucked off.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)