XPost: talk.politics.misc, soc.history.what-if, alt.history.what-if   
   From: SolomonW@citi.com   
      
   On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 21:51:35 -0500, PhantomView wrote:   
      
   > On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 20:03:22 +1100, SolomonW    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 21:58:41 -0500, PhantomView wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 23:33:23 +1100, SolomonW  wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Sun, 08 Dec 2019 21:51:21 -0500, PhantomView wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2019 22:24:38 +1100, SolomonW  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 19:33:24 -0600, Byker wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>  China, India, etc., so called "civilizations" had ZERO   
   >>>>>>> progressive spark. Their evolution had ceased 1000 years before.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>China was technologically growing for much of this 1000 year period.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>    But not as fast as would be expected.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>    I once heard it explained that there was a confluence   
   >>>>>    of Confucian and Taoist perspectives that encouraged   
   >>>>>    people to "let things be" ... just fulfill your traditional roles,   
   >>>>>    keep the old world going, do not rock the boat.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>    This put the brakes on Chinese sci/tech.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>Well Japan has the same perspectives and it is not like that.   
   >>>   
   >>>    Similar in the "social order" perspective, but not   
   >>>    when it comes to innovation/tech/invention.   
   >>>   
   >>>    It is *extremely* impressive how quickly Japan went from   
   >>>    being an essentially medieval nation to becoming a powerful   
   >>>    force in the world .... barely two generations between   
   >>>    sharpening swords and animal-drawn carts to whipping   
   >>>    the Tsars pacific fleet.   
   >>   
   >>Again that is society, Japan a few hundred years earlier was one of the   
   >>leaders in gunpowder technology.   
   >   
   >    The Samuri protested that firearms undermined the diginity   
   >    of their warrior class - the discipline, the mindset, the skills.   
   >    Of course they also threatened the Samuri class itself ... if   
   >    anyone could be an effective killer then why HAVE a warrior   
   >    class at all ?   
   >   
   >    It might be argued that the later rise of a conventional army   
   >    did indeed cause an imbalance in the long-established   
   >    social harmonic. Without the Samuri there was a void ...   
   >    and the conventional military filled it with a vengance - but   
   >    could not replace its philosophy and mindset and role as   
   >    a building-block of the society.   
   >   
   >    It may be worth watching another ancient highly-structured   
   >    and balanced society ... India. As the caste system decays   
   >    expect more and more imbalance in the social harmonics.   
   >    This may not be so terrible, OR we might see an Imperial   
   >    India take shape. Most likely though ... chaos and death   
   >    and civil wars. Societies are like a tall building, each part   
   >    must support the others. Tampering with the balance can   
   >    have serious consequences.   
   >   
      
   Guns level out the playing field.   
      
   >   
   >>> That is NOT China .... despite some   
   >>>    similarities there is a different dynamic in Japanese culture.   
   >>   
   >>China went through rapid advancement in this period too. The big problem   
   >>they faced was their enemy Japan was advancing faster.   
   >   
   >   
   >    Japan never invaded China until the 1930s, although there   
   >    were some unpleasantries before that - most notably over   
   >    Korea.   
      
   Actually check out the first Sino-Japanese war. This was the war, that   
   started the fall of imperial China.   
      
      
   >   
   >    China tried to invade Japan more than once however.   
      
   Long time earlier.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)