XPost: alt.idiots, soc.history, soc.culture.south-africa   
   From: hayesstw@telkomsa.net   
      
   On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 22:54:24 -0700, The Horny Goat    
   wrote:   
      
   >On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 10:51:27 +0200, Steve Hayes   
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >>On Tue, 03 Sep 2024 10:54:26 -0700, The Horny Goat    
   >>wrote:   
   >>   
   >>>On Tue, 03 Sep 2024 04:33:36 +0200, Steve Hayes   
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Sun, 1 Sep 2024 19:02:48 -0400, "186282@ud0s4.net"   
   >>>><186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>   According to treaties, this obligated the British   
   >>>>>   to make war on Germany.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   And so it began.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>That's only when it began in the European theatre.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>Two dates are commonly given for its end -- VE Day and VJ Day, and   
   >>>>perhaps the same needs to be done for its beginning.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>In Africa, WWII began earlier, on 3 October 1936, when Italy invaded   
   >>>>Ethiopia.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>In Asia, it began earlier still, on 18 September 1931, when Japan   
   >>>>invaded Manchuria.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>And even in Europe one could perhaps say it began earlier, with the   
   >>>>German Anschluss with Austria, perhaps, or the invasion of   
   >>>>Czechoslovakia.   
   >>>   
   >>>Good luck getting anything earlier than 3 Sept 1939 accepted as "the"   
   >>>start date outside Britain (+ possibly France)   
   >>   
   >>I'd expect it to be easier to get a date before 3 Sep 1939 accepted   
   >>outside the UK than within it.   
   >>   
   >>South Africa declared war on Germany on 4 Sep 1939.   
   >   
   >Good point. And Canada didn't declare until 10 Sept 1939 - the point   
   >being that 1939 was before the era where politicians routinely flew -   
   >the usual method of getting to Ottawa at that time was by passenger   
   >train. The Canadian House was adjourned on 1 Sept 1939 and the prime   
   >minister immediately recalled Parliament and gave them a week to get   
   >to Ottawa (which was thought to be the fastest an emergency recall   
   >could be executed). The Canadian declaration of war took place roughly   
   >1/2 hour after the Speaker first banged the gavel. Australia's and   
   >South Africa's parliaments WERE in session when Hitler invaded Poland   
   >so they declared war more or less at the same time as the UK. New   
   >Zealand's wasn't in session but then New Zealand is a much smaller   
   >country and didn't take nearly as long to re-convene. Similarly the US   
   >Congress WAS in session on 7 Dec 1941 so quickly convened. (Similarly   
   >the Canadian parliament was in session on 7/12/1941 and actually   
   >declared war about 1/2 hour before Washington did - not that anyone   
   >thought they'd declare neutrality after Pearl Harbor!)   
      
   In South Africa it caused the government to fall. And yes, there were   
   2 capitals, and they had to travel the 1000 miles between them on   
   Parliamentary Trains.   
      
   The United Party, which had been formed by the 2 biggest parties to   
   take land from black people in 1936 split, and the Purified National   
   party broke away over the issue of joining the war.   
      
   The rump of the United Party continued to rule during the war, but   
   lost to the Purified National Party in 1948, which ruled for the next   
   46 years.   
      
   --   
   Steve Hayes   
   http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm   
   http://khanya.wordpress.com   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)