XPost: comp.mobile.android, alt.os.linux, alt.comp.os.windows-10
From: dan@djph.net
Tomos Davies wrote:
> In , Dan Purgert suggested:
>
>> Therefore, unless the unit predates 2005, it is illegal in the United
>> States.
>
> All these devices have FCC ID numbers!
> So something is wrong between what you're saying and what I'm seeing!
>:)
Again, if the design of the device pre-dates the cutoff it gets
grandfathered in. 'Tik really *SHOULD* change things, but they don't
necessarily have to.
Though, 2005 was when the FCC started papers on the ruling, it could
very well be that it was later on that the ruling was put into effect.
That being said, right now, today, the ruling is in effect; and should
be considered when buying new equipment.
> That FCC ID tells all of us it's USA legal - does it not?
> https://img.routerboard.com/mimg/659_l.jpg
>
> Right under that FCC ID, it says "tested to comply with FCC standards for
> home or office use".
Companies can put whatever they want on the labels (unfortunately).
Comparing the "features offered" and "the FCC rules", the device
obviously does not conform to FCC standards.
Sure, it hits all the frequency points that it needs to - but that
little gotcha in the ruling that I quoted before ;).
> [...]
> I suspect:
> a. It can do any country it wants to do,
> b. But it would be illegal for you do set it up incorrectly.
That's not the wording of the FCC ruling. The wording is explicitly
that a "master device" must not allow an end-user / installer to select
non-US frequencies by any means.
All manufacturers that I am aware of (SOHO brands, UBNT, Cisco / Meraki,
Ruckus) have taken the "split the branding" approach ("US" gets one
model, everyone else gets another).
> [...]
> BTW, if the USA is the highest power anyway, then it's a moot point on
> power, wouldn't you say? (Except for the frequencies.)
It's frequencies that the FCC is more concerned about. Not that they're
not concerned with Tx power ... but the ruling is worded around channel
use / frequency.
> I suspect that the card is made and sold legally in the USA even today, in
> 2016 and that the only thing illegal is to use it illegally.
When there are provisions to lock the user out of ever selecting "not
USA", then yes, it is totally legal to sell. For example, shorting pin
3 to 15 (making that up) means "this device is US-Only".
>
> That would mean either:
> a. Use too high a power (I suspect the USA has the highest power anyway)
> b. Or to use a different frequency (where I know other countries allow it)
> c. Or to use it illegally to hit someone over the head with it. :)
>
> Other than that, I think it's legal from all indications on the net.
>
> I base that "assumption" on two things that seem to be true:
> 1. It seems to be sold today with the same FCC ID
> 2. Where that FCC ID seems to indicate it's legal in the USA
Your assumptions do not change the fact that in order to comply fully
with FCC regulations, the radio must not allow you to select "not USA
frequencies", at all, ever.
It could very well be that their interface is simply shit, and they show
all the countries, but when you try selecting "not USA" (or Canada,
etc.), it throws an error.
That being said, I fully do admit that I could be off with regards to
the cutoff date(s).
> [...]
>
> A. You say it's illegal if it was sold after 2005.
> B. I say it seems to be sold today (a dozen years later!)
> C. I say it has the same FCC ID then, as now.
2005 was the year I found some (additional?) ruling / clarification.
The FCC's site is a bit of a nightmare to navigate -- so perhaps the
2005 document was nothing more than an RFC, and the actual change came
later.
As it stands, checking today will show the information I quoted.
>
> All I know for sure though, is the following:
> 1. My Mikrotik R52n-M miniPCI wifi board has an FCC ID of TV7R52N
> 2. On the net, I find lots of pictures - all with the same FCC ID.
> 3. On the net, the card is sold in the USA - all with the same FCCID.
Yeah, because the FCC only cares about if things change to the radio.
Their grandfather-in rules are ... complex ... to say the least.
However, given that nothing has changed radio-wise on the device, it's
still "allowed" (for now anyway, until they change the rules again).
Personally, I'd give it a pass - why tie up money on a device that's
skirting[1] the rules?
[1] At least according to your description. It could very well be that
they've got some provision to keep you locked to "US" that they don't
reflect in the UI.
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