From: AM@highwire.net   
      
   "bogul"  wrote in message   
   news:Xns96645CF3ED28Cbugulbugus@129.250.170.93...   
   > "AM"  wrote in news:MNLle.37827$rt1.23951@fe04.lga:   
   >   
   >> "bogul"  wrote in message   
   >> news:Xns96636D4CC171Bbugulbugus@129.250.170.90...   
   >>> "AM"  wrote in news:oTFle.203$HN1.51@fe02.lga:   
   >>>   
   >>>> "Lane Gray, Czar Castic"  wrote in message   
   >>>> news:opsrfjygwi8955ol@stylgar...   
   >>>>> On Wed, 25 May 2005 11:03:49 -0600, AM  wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>> "bogul"  wrote in message   
   >>>>>> news:Xns965F8C8A7C3D2bugulbugus@216.196.97.142...   
   >>>>>>> An interesting sub-plot the the original thread...   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> I gotta ask. What are you seeking out in a "jam"?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> A jam is simply people *playing* together.  No hierarchicality is   
   >>>>>> necessary - - - unless one is excessively egoistic.  No control is   
   >>>>>> necessary - - - unless one is excessively narrow-minded.   
   >>>>>> Obviously, Control Freak Egomaniacs are psycho-spiritually   
   >>>>>> incapable of meeting these two crucial conditions.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> Well, if the piece getting played is a *song*, then one would   
   >>>>> expect the singer to have a good deal of input, as one would   
   >>>>> consider it his/her tune.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Most folksingers define singing as "any sound emanating from a   
   >>>> bodily orifice," and thus, are not worthy of any special deference.   
   >>>   
   >>> Basicly a meaningless tolling statement.   
   >>   
   >> Pot - - - Black, and that's "basically."  How can you expect Mexican   
   >> immigrants to learn English when you refuse to?   
   >>   
   >   
   > Typo... You also missed the fact that it should have been "trolling"   
   > instead of "tolling".   
   >   
   > Looks like we found us one of them racist bigots the original post was   
   > referencing.   
      
   How is describing immigrants from Mexico as Mexicans racist?  What is racist   
   is redneck yahoos criticizing Mexicans for speaking less than perfect   
   English - - - their second language - - - when they are already far more   
   bilingual than the typical American will ever dream of being.   
      
   >>>>>That said, unless the jam is held at someone's house (and the   
   >>>>>homeowner plays the role of the jamnazi), someone laying down rigid   
   >>>>>rules  isn't very cool at all.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>> or... perhaps better stated... what to you would truly   
   >>>>>>> constitute a Jam?   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This, I described in Paragraph 5 of the previous post:  "Union   
   >>>>>> with the Creative Force through an egalitarian, synergistic,   
   >>>>>> co-creative process, unfettered by subjective preconception of   
   >>>>>> what must occur."   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>> Here I'd say that the Dave Matthews Band or Phish have given you an   
   >>>>> odd concept of a "jam session."   
   >>>>> If you're at a bluegrass jam, expect the songs/instrumentals to   
   >>>>> roughly conform to the general aspects of bluegrass (i.e. generally   
   >>>>> three chords; generally in 2/4 time; most verses either 16 or 32   
   >>>>> bars, with choruses of generally equal length; you don't play your   
   >>>>> breaks in polyrhythms or take Charlie Parkeresque high-energy bebop   
   >>>>> flights of fancy), just like you wouldn't break out your Lynyrd   
   >>>>> Skynrd licks if you sat in at a Dixieland jam.  The idea of a jam   
   >>>>> session "unfettered by subjective preconception of what must occur"   
   >>>>> will generally not exist anywhere. A room full of 'grassers will   
   >>>>> generally expect the music to sound like bluegrass, a Dixieland jam   
   >>>>> will generally conform to the standards and conventions of   
   >>>>> Dixieland, a blues jam will generally conform to the standards and   
   >>>>> conventions of the blues, et al, et c.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> As Frank Zappa once said, "Without deviation from the norm, no   
   >>>> progress is possible."   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>> In order to deviate... a norm must be established... Any norm   
   >>> established started as a deviation... So to give a "norm" the back of   
   >>> your hand simply demonstrates a complete lack of understanding and   
   >>> appriciation for musical roots. Zappa was great... but didn't   
   >>> "always" deviate... Much of what he did is now considered norm...   
   >>> shall we belittle it as well?   
   >>   
   >> It is not I belittling the norm, but rather the die-hard   
   >> conventionalists of any given genre belittling deviation, and, as you   
   >> have already conceded, all norms started as deviations.  Bill Monroe,   
   >> for instance, was a musical innovator and adventurer, which is why we   
   >> will remember his name long after we have forgotten yours.  Bluegrass   
   >> would not have enjoyed this current renaissance without the likes of   
   >> borderline bluegrass figures such as Grisman and Fleck broadening it's   
   >> appeal - - - by fusing it with other genre, an act intrinsically   
   >> heretical to purist fundamentalists.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Grisman and Fleck are amazing(understatment). And they are likely your   
   > conduit through which you view bluegrass. But there are a great may   
   > conduits through which folk link up to bluegrass. To state that bluegrass   
   > would "NOT" be where it is today without them is true... but the current   
   > renaissance is much much broader than that.   
   >   
   > My friend ... in the jams you've been to... you may well be right about   
   > these "purist fundies(used a little atheist lingo there for ya)". But you   
   > were the one in this forum who slammed the traditional music as lacking   
   > any sense of musical adventure or jam worthness. So don't lay that on us.   
      
   I am only slamming anyone because they have slammed me.  There are acts of   
   aggression and acts of retaliation in self-defense.  To interfere in the   
   creative process of another when one is not paying them to take orders is a   
   clear act of aggression, and if I smash their guitars over their heads for   
   doing so, it is merely an entirely legitimate act of self-defense in   
   reaction of a clear invasion of one's spiritual space.   
      
   >> Personally, I *never* interfere in the play of others, because I never   
   >> feel the need to, since I find MY fun in simply adapting to whatever   
   >> IS played. If it just doesn't work with a given individual, usually a   
   >> result of basic rhythmic incoherence (or a bum mix), I just move on -   
   >> - - rather than attempting to impose my subjective musical values on   
   >> another.  There's no shortage of musicians to play with.   
   >>   
   >   
   > You are too funny man ... After post a flame of "jams", now you state   
   > that you just "adapt to whatever IS played" .... lmao ... Apparently   
   > you've been "interfered with while playing" ... well... breaks don't last   
   > forever dude ... play your shit and move on and stop looking at the faces   
   > around you to see if anyone liked it or not ...  (the preceeding was   
   > neither spell checked or reviewed so have at it)   
      
   I "adapt to whatever is played" - - - until I am interfered with.   
      
   >> How amusing, as well, that you misspelled "appreciation" immediately   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)