XPost: rec.music.bluenote   
   From: jcmartin@sonic.net   
      
   Melodious Thunk wrote:   
      
   > In article , JC Martin   
    wrote:   
   >   
   >   
   >>Melodious Thunk wrote:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>In article <4260083c.9272362@News.sprint.ca>, hepkatreetaroonie@hotmail.com   
   >>>(Max Leggett)   
   >>>wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:54:41 GMT, JC Martin    
   >>>>wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>Melodious Thunk wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>In article , "Larry Guichard"   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>Though I love it, jazz has never been very main stream in music.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Sure it has. As J. Scott pointed out, what's now called "the jazz age,"   
   >>>>>>and "the swing era" that   
   >>>>>>followed it marked periods when the popular music of north american was   
   >>>>>>jazz.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Nowadays, jazz aficionados tend to look down on popular artists who, were   
   >>>>>>they not popular,   
   >>>>>>would be hard-pressed *not* to be called jazzers. "Rock" acts such as   
   >>>>>>Sting and Steely Dan are   
   >>>>>>essentially jazz artists; and there's no need to point out how much   
   >>>>>>product Kenny G. moves, is   
   >>>>>>there?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>They're hardly jazz artists.  Influenced by jazz?  Sure.  Improvisation?   
   >>>>>No.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>This is a superb example of the triumph of marketing, that well   
   >>>>meaning people can state, and evidently believe, that Sting and Steely   
   >>>>Dan play jazz. As to the amount of product that Kenny G moves, that's   
   >>>>a complete non sequitur, unless one wants to assert that the Beatles   
   >>>>played jazz, as evidenced by the amount of product they moved.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>I don't qualify Sting, Fagan or Feldman as my favorite artists on their   
   >>>respective instruments   
   >>>(though Gadd is right up there as a favorite drummer); all these artists,   
   >>>though, cite jazz   
   >>>masters as important influences on them, and all these artists incorporate   
   >>>jazz elements,   
   >>>including improvisation, into their works. Even Keith Emerson cites   
   >>>beboppers and striders as   
   >>>his biggest lnfluences; and he too incorporates many jazz elements (but not   
   >>>enough that I'd call   
   >>>him a jazz artist).   
   >>>   
   >>>Although I agree with you about marketing triumphing inappropriately. Now   
   >>>how would you qualify   
   >>>an artist like Mangione? Twenty years back he was marketed in a manner   
   >>>essentially like Kenny G.   
   >>>is marketed today; was he more undeniably a jazz artist? Some of his   
   >>>biggest hits had virtually   
   >>>no improvisation (or changes, for that matter). Mangione's not my favorite   
   >>>flugel player,   
   >>>anymore than Sting is my favorite bassist; but I can't deny that jazz has   
   >>>been a major influence   
   >>>on either of them, and that each of them incorporates sufficient jazz   
   >>>elements that I've got to   
   >>>call at least some of their respective output jazz.   
   >>   
   >>God, how silly.   
   >   
   >   
   > Arguing that none of "smooth jazz" is actually jazz, is equi-silly.   
   >   
   >   
   >>How about you provide some concrete examples?  Even on   
   >>Mangione's instrument, he improvised.  He was also a bonna fide jazz   
   >>musician who paid his dues playing with the likes of Art Blakey.   
   >   
   >   
   > Sure, I especially liked the "Bellavia" album, and I like Blakey's body of   
   work better than   
   > anyone else discussed. But Mangione's chart and sales hits were tunes like   
   "Chase The Clouds   
   > Away" (with no improv's in the radio mix) and "Feels So Good" (with pretty   
   minimalist improv's).   
   > What is that, a dozen chords between 'em, and nary a "raised four" or   
   anything more daring.   
   > Mangione's not my favorite player, but he might be my favorite   
   Scientologist  ;-)   
      
      
   Never knew he was a Scientologist, wherever that comes in.   
      
      
   >>What   
   >>jazz band has Sting played in?  Where's the improvisation?   
   >   
   >   
   > Look at the musicians he's worked with and concerts he's put on over the   
   years. Read a bio of   
   > the man. As far as improv's, I don't have any Sting favorites, I don't like   
   'em. There's no   
   > doubt he improvises though, as do his sidemen.   
      
      
   He doesn't improvise AT ALL, and you won't be able to pinpoint one   
   instance in which he has.  Same with Steely Dan.  Now Sting did have a   
   band put together of jazz musicians earlier in his career in which he   
   let the other guys improvise (Branford, Kenny, Daryl, Omar) just a   
   *little* bit to show off to his audiences.  But Sting played rhythm   
   guitar in that band.  Gee, I wonder why?  I guess if Daryl Jones now   
   plays with the Stones, that makes them jazz too, right?  :-P  Come on now.   
      
      
   >I don't much like it, but the stuff he calls jazz   
   > qualifies as such. (Just fairly uninteresting jazz, IMO.)   
   >   
   >   
   >>Come on, put   
   >>up or shut up.   
      
      
      
   See, no examples.  Rest my case.   
      
   Virtually yours,   
   JC   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
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