From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2018082222085096800-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > What band girl says is that the bass isn't loud enough, or more exactly   
   > it's things like " there isn't any bass "  " I don't hear any bass " .....   
   > stuff like that.  This happens on one particular stage.   
      
   Maybe something is set up wrong - perhaps even out of phase wiring to the   
   cabs or even the  speakers themselves.   
      
   > Odd thing about our setup, we don't use any onstage amps.  The bass comes   
   > thru the main pa cabs.  Stand near or on a line between the pa mains and   
   > you can find spots where the bass " disappears ".   This wouldn't happen   
   > if the bass was coming from a bass amp and cab on stage. That would be a   
   > single source, and wouldn't phase cancel itself. Or, if we had crazy loud   
   > floor wedges with some of the instruments ( bass ) in them.   
      
   > Or if we used a BOSE stick, again a single source.   
      
   Well I wouldn't go that far ;) But then I've never thought of those Gimmick   
   pedlers, Bose-O!   
      
   I know I've always been raving about using a pa for *everyone* in the band,   
   but of relatively late, I must admit that such is not always the case,   
   particularly in practice, or at very least, *qualify* my preference for   
   using a pa.   
      
   Being an idealist, I'm always considering things in ideal terms, and of   
   course that definitely includes soundwork.   
   And I quickly lose interest when things are less than ideal *because* of   
   indifference, or any other STUPID reason!   
      
   Or to put it another way, I prefer using a pa ONLY SO LONG AS IT'S BEING   
   OPERATED BY A COMPETENT PERSON!!!   
      
   If not, i.e. the operator is an Idiot, then everyone might as well have   
   their own amps too!!!   
      
   > This seems a major problem of trying to use the pa for stage sound.   
      
   Sounds like Incompetence to me!   
      
   > How can we make sure she hears the bass ?   
      
   She should more than just hear, but feel it too.   
      
   1. Make sure the bass sources are all in phase.   
   2. Try to have them in the quarter space or as close to it as can   
   practically be done.   
   3. Verify that there's a good bass signal i.e. rich and deep, not EQd down,   
   and of sufficient amplitude going to the bass cabs.   
   4. Make sure nobody messes with the sound, i.e. doesn't like bass and sneaks   
   the levels down.   
      
   > In Ears would be the perfect solution, but she won't use them.   
      
   If the problem is an Incompetent soundperson, or otherwise someone messing   
   with the controls, not only won't the IEMs matter, but they'll increase the   
   over all discomfort by having them stuck into the ears!   
      
   > A second solution could be to add a sub cab.   
      
   What kind of bass radiators are currently being used?   
      
   > No matter where it might be, it shouldn't line up to add to the   
   > cancellation effect of the two pa mains.  That's what we'll do short term.   
   > Just put a sub onstage.   
      
   If you know that for sure, might as well, but it'd be best to make sure   
   first.   
      
   > Wait, we've done that.  Know what happens then ?  The drummer hears the   
   > bass better, and so plays louder.  This is exactly what happened two weeks   
   > ago, when the stage level went thru the roof.   
      
   Uh Oh!!! Might it just possibly be that bass frequencies are Deliberately   
   being attenuated to prevent the drummer from getting too loud? In other   
   words, is this someone's idea of a 'trade-off', where too-weak bass is   
   preferred to too-strong drums?   
      
   > This all sounds hopeless.  It is.   
      
   Not really. Only people are hopeless...when they Stupidly and Deliberately   
   Insist on being that way!!!   
      
   > I've been googling loud stage levels topics.  The net is full of musician   
   > forums talking about loud stage levels.  There ain't no fix.  It seems   
   > some players just like loud.  As long as I'm working with any of those,   
   > I'll be fighting over stage level.   
      
      
   Jim   
      
   Of  course there's a fix - A COMPETENT SOUND PERSON!!!   
      
   Ouisie   
      
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