From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2018082321385651172-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Possible.  Last gig was a pair of JBL self powered cabs and one EV bass   
   > cab as a sub.   I suppose the JBL's could be wired wrong from the factory.   
   > Or, one of the mic lines we connect then with is wired wrong.  It's   
   > possible.   
      
   Crazier things have happened and it's at least worth checking out because   
   there's got to be an explanation.   
      
   > But. ...   
      
   > That doesn't need to be the case. All we need is to space the cabs about   
   > 30-ish feet apart, and have them hearable onstage. Doing that will create   
   > noticable phase cancellation in the 50 to 100 to 150 cps range.  You don't   
   > hear this on home stereos, as the speakers aren't seperated enough.   
      
   Anything at an unequal distance (assuming two bass cabs) that can reflect   
   the wavy can cause the cancellation.   
   But even a single cab will produce cancellation if there's something to   
   reflect off, which is another good reason for using the quarter space.   
      
   > The BOSE sticks solve a very basic problem for small combos.  They let you   
   > use ONE set of speakers as both FOH and as monitors.  It's actually a   
   > really clever thing.   
      
   You can do that with a *decent* sound system too instead of the underpowered   
   overpriced Bose-O!   
      
   > There's no one messing with the sound other than me.  At least at our   
   > normal gigs.  I disagree on the " feeling it " thing.  No way does it EVER   
   > have to be loud enough to feel onstage. If you like that, fine, have at   
   > it. But I'll never be happy, or even in a band again where I can feel the   
   > bass.  How loud would that have to be anyway ?   
      
   Feeling the bass is from the very low frequencies, and it doesn't have to be   
   very loud, only efficient   
      
   > With our system, each person has total control of their own in ears, and   
   > the mix they hear.  That's the beauty of it.  You don't have to rely on   
   > anyone else to get your monitors right. Of course you do have to spend the   
   > time to learn how to move the little sliders and figure out what they do.   
      
   Unfortunately, at my church, that's not the situation.   
      
   > EV Force cabs.   
      
   I'm not sure which ones those are because I couldn't find them...must be an   
   older model. But I did see some monsters with a15" woofer and midrange,   
   built like a tank and heavy like one too - something like 87 lbs.   
      
   > It works. The issue was figuring out WHY she couldn't hear bass onstage,   
   > when it was blindingly loud to everyone else.   
      
   Fortunately, loud base is nowhere near as damaging to hearing as are the   
   higher frequencies.   
      
   > No, the drummer has in ears. What he's listening to I don't know, or care   
   > really. All I care about is that he plays well, and at some sort of   
   > reasonable level.   
      
   I thought his not doing that is the problem.   
      
   > Oh, it's hopeless.   
      
   No it's not. Just have to investigate more.   
      
   > No.  It's not about the FOH sound, where the soundperson can control it.   
   > ALL of our issues are about onstage levels / mix.  A front of house   
   > soundperson can't mix stage monitors with any luck at all .... IF ......   
   > the performers are hyper nitpicky, or just don't have a clue in the world   
   > whats possible, and what isn't.   
      
   That's the problem with *two* sound systems, specifically, the monitors.   
      
   > in other news, I spent today working on " ducking ".  After talking to   
   > band girl on the phone, she's of the opinion that live bands may well not   
   > be able to sound " like the record ".  I agree.  Records don't sound like   
   > live bands. They never did.  Specifically as relates to modern country,   
   > the recorded sound is squashed to the max with compression. No way to do   
   > that live, is there ?   
      
   Sure, you can compress it to death live, but why?   
   For that matter, why do it on studio recordings?   
      
   > Think of it this way. The band plays some intro.  That sets a basic volume   
   > level onstage. Then the singer, in order to be heard, has to sing ( thru   
   > the pa ) a little louder than that.  This is assuming that the band   
   > doesn't back off volume wise, which I've never see a bar band do ... ever.   
      
   I'm *always* adjusting my sound as I play in order to best hear   
   everything...it's a long time habit - learned it when I was 16, and have   
   been refining it ever since - it's not at all difficult, but it does require   
   a Mature Attitude!!!   
      
   > So ok, the singer is a little louder than the band, and you can hear her.   
   > Then comes time for the guitar break, he cranks it a little to fill in the   
   > perceived drop in volume as the singer takes a breath.  Fine, the rest of   
   > the band bumps their volume a little to match.  Then the singer has to get   
   > a little louder yet to sing the second part of the song, and so on and so   
   > on.   
      
   If the focus was on getting quieter instead of louder, it would dramatically   
   improve the situation - that's what I always do....but it'd difficult, as is   
   ANYthing else, requiring *COOPERATION*!!!   
      
   > Always up in volume. Never back off.  This cycle repeats until the windows   
   > break :-) Or my ears. Or the pa cabs. Or the monitors.  It's a basic bar   
   > band volume war.   
      
   That's so childish, and STUPID!   
   But I Refuse to play like that - rather, I'll only turn up just enough so I   
   can hear myself, and no louder...if the band gets even louder, I may even   
   turn down a bit and concentrate on hearing myself.   
      
   > Now, in recording, or even pro bands, this isn't how it works.  When the   
   > singer sings, the music gets temporarily softer.  Big pro pa's have racks   
   > of compressors to do that.  Ah, and so does my little XR18 :-)   
      
   That's a nice feature to have...but so is TURNING *DOWN*!!!   
      
   > What I set up was one aux buss ( #6 ) as a " ducking buss ".  I sent the   
   > vocal mics to that buss, then used buss 6 to control sidechain compressors   
   > on the music channels.  That is a little simplified, but generally the   
   > deal. What happens is, when I, or band girl sings, everything else in the   
   > pa ( except the drums ) gets backed down in volume a few db.  It's kinda   
   > cool.  I.nstead of the vocals constantly having to try and climb over the   
   > music, the music lets up and makes a   
   vspace.   
      
   I don't believe in letting the vocals, or anything else, Dominate! That's   
   the problem, those who insist that it's *their* show and they've got to be   
   out front. Rather, I prefer Balance, so that everyone is Clearly and Equally   
   heard...and that takes, Effort, Ability, and the right Attitude!!!   
      
   > I set up a separate side chain to duck my guitar and keys.  So I don't   
   > have to let off on those either during vocals.  When I, or the girl are   
   > singing, my instruments drop off a bit. As soon as we stop, they come back   
   > to full volume.   
      
   What you're calling 'ducking', isn't really necessary. Rather, I've found it   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)