From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2018100110200857494-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Working with tracks is not harder, in fact it's easier, than working with   
   > many real life musicians. I use to describe have a bass line on tracks is   
   > like having a bass player that knew the song, and could hold a steady   
   > beat.  Same comment as to drums.   
      
   That's it, Only Learning the song can correct not knowing it, nothing else   
   can.   
      
   > The only aspect of " forcing  " is if you want to play the song out of   
   > step with the tracks. How is that different from wanting to do the same   
   > with some really good, really tight rhythm section ?   
      
   I don't think it's a matter of 'wanting' to play out of rhythm but rather   
   not being able to *avoid* playing out  of rhythm due to Lazy, Insufficient   
   Practice!   
      
   > If you can't play in time, and you don't know the material, tracks or not,   
   > you're just screwing up.   
      
   The Purpose of Practice it to make sure that doesn't happen!   
      
   > Nope.  Screwing up means you don't know the song. Or you can't hold a   
   > steady beat. Or you can't play in time with others.   
      
   Either these so-called 'rebels' regularly Slacked Off and Screwed Up on   
   their former (non Music) 'jobs' and it was somehow tolerated or simply, and   
   more likely, although I can't imagine how or why, unnoticed, allowing them   
   to 'get away' with it, and are now upset that when doing Music, Slacking Off   
   and Screwing Up WILL be noticed, NOT be tolerated, and they will not get   
   away with it as reflected by not getting gigs, OR they were Required, in   
   order to keep their jobs, to keep their proverbial 'noses to the grindstone'   
   as it were, do things Right, i.e. Not Screw Up, or Screw Off, and are now   
   taking their Unjustified frustrations out on Music, which is in any case   
   Disgusting!   
      
   > Yes, that's what I've been saying. Playing along with well made tracks is   
   > the same as working with a good band.   
      
   A good band is a good band because its members Know what they're doing,   
   because they've Sufficiently Practiced and then, after that, they Rehearsed   
   Sufficiently until they actually Sound like a good band.   
      
   But trying to get Lazy Uninterested Slackers to sound like that by   
   *simulating* the sound of a good band and trying to get them to KEEP UP with   
   it will Never work because it's THEY who First need an Attitude Adjustment   
   Before they can Ever go in Any semblance of the Right Direction!   
      
   They've already HAD - Past Tense, their chance to rebel when they were still   
   working at their old jobs but most likely Knew that they didn't Dare because   
   they Knew they were Cowards, and/or Lacking in Conviction, and would  get   
   Fired, and Lose their jobs if they ever tried it - so what  do they do?   
   Later, well After the Fact, they PICKED on an innocent band as their Target   
   for their own pent up frustrations with themselves...and their sorely in   
   Need of Practice musicianship clearly shows it - and Music is no place for   
   Mental Problems!   
      
   Currently, I'm playing in a band that does very little material that I   
   actually like, even a little, and what am I doing about it? I'm knocking   
   myself out Learning material that I don't even like, and I'm getting it all   
   down! And Why? Because of this thing called Personal Integrity, a Totally   
   NON-negotiable, Absolute Prerequisite to *Successful*, *Honest*   
   Professionalism!   
      
   Unless there are Major changes, including writing Originals, which I've been   
   'promised' will happen, I have no intention of staying with the band. I've   
   already let the others know that what they're into is NOT what I'm into so   
   they shouldn't be surprised if it comes up after a gig or such, that I   
   mention that I'm only *filling in* until the band can get a keyboard player   
   who's into what they're into, because I'M NOT!   
      
   This band is so 'UN-me'! They, or at least the drummer, wants a 'tough guy'   
   image, which of course has nothing to do with me...yet they don't appreciate   
   that because what they appreciate more, and really like, is the sound,   
   because I knock myself out to do my best with material that's as Alien to me   
   as I am to it! Which means it's probably going to be difficult to *smoothly*   
   transition OUT of that band - they've already mentioned that I'm the only   
   keyboard player they've ever known who's into the sound of a Hammond B3, and   
   that unlike other players they've tried, I don't slack off, deliberately or   
   otherwise, because I don't like or are not into their material, and that I'm   
   always looking for ways to improve the sound, like by playing 'electric   
   piano bass' on my digital piano ala The Doors' late, great Ray Manzarek,   
   which really did improve our sound. I let them know that playing like that   
   was sure a blast from the past, all the way back to when I was 16 and had   
   just gotten into my second band ever, called "Unity", also a trio.   
      
   In other words, they Need Professional Attitude much more than any so-called   
   'tough guy' or any other Silly image!   
   At least they're Mature enough to recognize and appreciate That!   
      
   > The reason it's not possible to work 100% withot tracks, is because some   
   > songs simply arent' structured in a way where that's possible.  If you   
   > can't see that, then your world is too small. Not all songs are   
   > straighforward blues tunes. Some have complexity beyond what you could   
   > guess at without knowing where the beat actually is.   
      
   You're describing Yngwie Malmsteen material ;)   
      
   Okay, what does the euphemism "...aren't structured in a way where that's   
   possible" really mean?   
      
   > If there isn't some instrument playing on the beat, or steadily off the   
   > beat in some maner, you can't reliably GUESS where the beat is.   
      
   Guessing is what Train Wrecks are made of!   
      
   Anyone who can't, by themselves, play on the beat needs a LOT more Practice!   
      
   > You live in some alternate reality.   
      
   Would that I could...if only...!   
      
   > That's cool. I with a few more of the really good local musicians thought   
   > your way.  As it is, some are slowly, very slowly realizing what we do   
   > works.   
      
   But from what I've heard so far, it seems like beating, or otherwise   
   animating a proverbial Dead Horse!   
      
   All these little tactics seem to be intended as nothing more than   
   'band-aids' of sorts, or 'work-arounds' to somehow 'compensate' for, or at   
   least 'mitigate' things that have no cause to be there in the first place.   
      
   > Ans as that sinks thru their thick thick skulls, a few of them just might   
   > someday be competition for our gigs.   
      
   But far more likely, they just might NOT, because they've been so consistent   
   in that pattern for so very long ;)   
      
   > None of this applies to big deal concert bands. They have budgets millions   
   > of times, literally bigger than ours and can hire all the " real " players   
   > they want. That's another world.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)