From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "Jim D"  wrote in message news:2019022612185258322-Not@ThisAddresscom...   
      
   > Exactly. If this is a trend, then bands with all their gear on one end of   
   > the room blasting away is an endangered way to go.   
      
   I doubt it, because not everyone wants to pay to equip the house with it's   
   own total sound system, but I still like the idea of not lugging amps   
   around. Now if they could also supply a nice 9' concert grand piano, or even   
   a Yamaha Motif, and a Hammond B3 with Leslies, or even a really nice   
   clonewheel organ, all I'd have to worry about bringing is myself ;)   
      
   > in fact .... here's a creepy thought for you .... I read on some bass   
   > forum, talkbass maybe, about a recent trade show with one of the majors   
   > was handing out bluetooth ( or some wireless tech ) headsets for people to   
   > listen to their presentation and show artists performing. Really.  That   
   > led to some pondering if that will find its way to clubs at some point.   
   > You go in, they give you some earbuds, and you can turn the music up as   
   > loud as you want ... in your own ears. The club itself wouldn't have any   
   > speakers blaring.   
      
   And what if they start doing that even at concerts? ;)   
      
   > Sound crazy ?   Does to me too, like the paperless office and electric   
   > cars ... but then who knows :-)   
      
   What's REALLY *Crazy* is the INSANE notion that Real so-called   
   'brick-and-mortar' REAL stores are no longer needed because of online   
   sales...just a 'few' problems though, like actually checking out IN PERSON,   
   what you're interested in, *trying on* clothes to make sure they fit before   
   buying them, or for that matter, actually playing musical instruments before   
   buying them...something that ZOMBIES didn't bother to Think about - because   
   they're Mindless Idiots who don't Think!   
      
   > btw, I love electric cars.  If I live long enough I'll have one.  At some   
   > future point when I don't need to actually travel any distance, and so can   
   > get by on the limited range.  For now I use my bicycle for that stuff :-)   
      
   Electric cars are great, particularly when they can have a power supply   
   that'll last as long as a tank of gas lasts in a car with an internal   
   combustion recip engine - but are they really necessary?   
      
   > Yes, nearly all permanent installations are designed like that.  That's   
   > what my brother did for a living, designed systems like that for BIG   
   > venues.   
      
   Yet Another reason for writing Originals, to play those venues and to Hell   
   with anything less!!!   
      
   > We're working on the sound levels.   
      
   Differences in Hearing ability, or DISability, makes for even more   
   challenges there.   
      
   > Cool.   
      
   It was more than that. A direct descendant of the 34 oz ceramic magnet   
   0.312" chamfered to 0.250" front plate, 1.5" aluminum form even hung voice   
   coil 'butt kicking' 12T6-16 speakers that made Fender Twin Reverbs   
   legendary, but this was its big sister, still a 12" but with a 54 oz ceramic   
   magnet, a 0.375 front plate chamfered to 0.312 to match the winding width   
   (even hung, for maximum magnetic coupling efficiency over its intended   
   range) of a 2" aluminum form voice coil.   
      
   It's 'competitor' was a 12" Celestion with a 1.25" Nomex or similar non   
   conducting voice coil form. It was the standard speaker used in Marshall   
   amps and it's smaller size voice coil and non conducting material was   
   intended to give it maximum response in the deaf guitar players' range,   
   which it did...but as a result had a more limited power handling   
   capacity...but the monster I designed easily rode a full 3 dB over the   
   Celestion throughout the entire range for the same power, and unlike the   
   Celestion, had more than enough power to burn, actually to not burn, thanks   
   to how  robustly it was made and it's large aluminum voice coil form's heat   
   dissipating capability if ever insanely overdriven...guaranteed to fry   
   anyone's ears without frying itself first ;)   
   I sure wish they would have been presented to Marshall to check out, and   
   just imagine Fender Twins with them...deafness taken to new levels!!!   
      
   > First, thank you bunches for finding that info. Thanks thanks thanks.   
      
   I still didn't find what I wanted, and that is, specific SPL at specific   
   power at specific distance, even at discreet frequencies although a swept   
   response curve would be nice, and the audio amp(s) output power in Watts   
   RMS.   
      
   > It doesn't surprise me there are no wattage numbers. Aren't these things   
   > all self powered ?  As in, the power amps are built into the units.   
      
   No, it's got its own amp(s) but that wouldn't matter as it's the audio amps'   
   outputs that still need to be specified.   
      
   > In that case I can see why they might not publish the power amp specs.  It   
   > just doesn't matter to the normal end user.   
      
   If what passes for 'normal' is a Zombie, then no, since Zombies don't Think,   
   which also means that they also don't care...BUT...for those who are into   
   audio and Think, as everyone into it should, then it's a Very BIG issue and   
   always has been!   
      
   > I know that in our case, I look at the SPL levels of speakers and cabs.   
   > That's what I care about, not how many watts it takes to get there.   
      
   Power handling and efficiency matter a lot, because the more efficient a   
   system is, the lighter it'll be, at least the amp(s).   
      
   > And, yes, in the past wattage mattered, back before Class D amps that   
   > weigh literaly the same as an empty case and often put out power up to the   
   > limits of the house AC system.  I know ours do anyway :-)   2000 watt   
   > class D amps are next to free ( compared to old amp prices) , and weigh   
   > under 10 lbs.  The only wattage spec that matters for passive speakers /   
   > cabs then is how much they can take before you fry the coils.   
      
   It's always important to know power levels and while power may be much   
   cheaper than in vacuum tube days, efficient speakers are still a good thing   
   too....and besides, knowing SPLs is a good way to protect hearing.   
      
   > The jbl EON 315 band girl uses as a floor wedge is somewhere around 250   
   > watts, class D, built in amp.   
      
   A 250 W monitor? Now that's where you Really need an SPL meter...because   
   that definitely sounds like Dangerous levels!!!   
      
   > Those amps are so good, and so light that it's easy to see why the trend   
   > is to build them into the speaker cabs.   
      
   I kind of like the Behringer iNuke series ;)   
      
   > I'm good with that.  Of course, with this comes a downside. When the amp   
   > goes, so does the cab, as they pretty much aren't repairable.   
      
   That's why I've always preferred component systems.   
      
   > I don't know the 315 max spl off the top of my head, but it's around 125   
   > or 127 db.   
      
   At what distance? I can't believe it would do that at a meter away - I'd be   
   expecting levels more in the 130 dB+ range at least. But of course, there's   
      
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