From: klb52@gmx.us   
      
   On 2016-05-08 10:12:51 -0500, KLB  said:   
      
   > On 2016-05-08 09:49:05 -0500, JimD  said:   
   >   
   >>   
   >>>>   
   >>> You have to translate drummer speak.   
   >>> "Your guitar is too loud in my headphones" means   
   >>> "my drums are not loud enough."   
   >>> His drums sound muffled because he is hearing the "live" sound through   
   >>> the open air headphones, also means "my drums are not loud enough."   
   >>> Neil   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Yes. The problem is, tho, that by the time his drums are loud enough to   
   >> suit him, my ears hurt.  Not " gee, that's kinda annoying " hurt, they   
   >> PHYSICALLY hurt. I can hear and feel small muscles in my ears " popping   
   >> " as they try and limit the sound. After a very loud sound, once it   
   >> quits, I can hear my ear " releasing ". It's some muscle refex in   
   >> there. And after a few 10's of minutes of drums, my ear on whichever   
   >> side the drums are hurts, physically painfully hurts.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> We tried letting him use one of those Galaxy Audio Hot Spots as a   
   >> monitor. Head level, about 3 feet from him ...  I maxed out one side of   
   >> a PV 1600 watt power power amp into that.  Nope, not even close what   
   >> he's looking for.  To be fair, Hot Spot vocal monitors aren't made to   
   >> do bass. I knew that, but he basically doesn't believe us.  It   
   >> surprised me 800+ watts didn't fry the thing.  We only tried it for   
   >> about a minute. That is wasn't gonna work was obvious. So what would   
   >> work would be some big, 15 and a horn, and put that right head level,   
   >> close and pointed at him.   
   >>   
   >> Problem is, and you all know, he'll just play louder then.  Then the   
   >> bleed from that monitor will completely wreck the stage levels.   
   >> Remember, we don't use any on stage amps. All we hear is the actual pa   
   >> mix, done by carefully placing the main cabs where we too can hear   
   >> them. Not out front so we're looking at the back of them, but about   
   >> half way back on the side of the stage and angled in. More like how   
   >> you'd set up Bose L1's.  Same principle, actually.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> This is an interesting topic. Years ago, we'd all just play as loud as   
   >> we could get our amps to go, and actually believed that was how it was   
   >> supposed to be done. What can I say ?  We were young and stupid.  Now   
   >> tho, we can't use the young part of that excuse. If we still want to   
   >> play like that, then " stupid " is the only part that still applies.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Almost.   There is a new aspect.   Now, it really seems to me that many   
   >> of my musican buddies are showing noticeable effects of hearing loss.   
   >> They make arguments about not being able to hear monitors and stuff.   
   >> Singer girl pointed out that when she started out, we didn't bother   
   >> with " monitors ". People played at, apparently much lower levels.  Two   
   >> points there. One, the amps were far smaller. 12 or 24 watts or on the   
   >> max side, 60-ish  watts ( for an old Twin ).  Bass amps were 50 watts.   
   >>   
   >> Try that now and you're not even in the game volume wise. I know that,   
   >> I still have those old amps around to try.  Got a black face Bassman   
   >> sitting right across the room ( 50 watts on a good day ). There's a "   
   >> screamin' " loud 12 watt '69 Princeton at the end of the couch I'm   
   >> sitting on.  Black face Twin behind a couch in the living room. Could   
   >> we use those live now ?  Well, mic'd, maybe. But once the drums kick   
   >> in, forget hearing them.   
   >>   
   >> So why did they once work just fine ?   How about this, it was because   
   >> we all had better hearing then.   Yep, I suspect as people age, their   
   >> hearing goes away. And when that happens, they start turning things up.   
   >> Tv's, radios, and .... wait for it ....... guitar amps and monitors.  I   
   >> believe a lot of the issues I'm seeing are due to my aging musician   
   >> buddies ( any myself ) losing our hearing.   
   >>   
   >> We compensate by cranking the volume, buying bigger amps, cranking   
   >> more, and mostly ... complaining that the monitors aren't lound enough.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> ......   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>  Jim   
   >   
   >   
   >>   
   >> I may have mentioned this but I was in a band fairly recently that   
   >> played 50s-70s, for "animal" clubs Moose, Eagles, Elks etc and we had a   
   >> drummer who was amazingly talented and yet no volume control.  These   
   >> were older adults we were playing for and it was HUGE problem.  We were   
   >> at an Amer Legion and the first set I just stopped playing to see if he   
   >> would notice.  I was the only lead guitar... Not a bit.  At the break,   
   >> a patron came up and said to us "All I can hear is drums!"  Now you   
   >> might think, why didn't I say something myself.  Simple> he would go   
   >> ballistic anytime anyone suggested being quieter...  I told the leader   
   >> of the band that night that I was through - I told him I would finish   
   >> any jobs he needed me on but he needed to start looking.  The bass   
   >> player told him the same thing the next gig and the band is now   
   >> defunct.  I think it is such a shame that this tremendously talented   
   >> drummer killed a band out of his own ego...   
   >   
   >> Louise always disses tracks but when you play for adults, volume is a   
   >> real issue and tracks can be controlled.  I would NEVER choose a drum   
   >> track over a talented, aware, cooperative drummer but I would choose   
   >> one over that type of drummer every time.   
   >   
   >>   
   > I probably should say this, but Jim, you may have to think hard about   
   > the drummer you are using.  Not trying to be a buttinsky but...   
      
   I meant "shouldn't"   
      
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