From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2017012322302819082-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Ok.  People can spend whatever they want to.  It's a free market concept.   
   > " what the market will bear "   
      
   That wasn't what the question was about, but rather the *REASON*.   
      
   And it's NOT a 'free' market when there are those who CAN'T spend because   
   they DON'T have enough of the Satanic Invention of money to play the FOOL'S   
   Game, which is the very essence of ALL EVIL and it's *root* is the love of   
   it!   
      
   > Some of my bikes use the old non indexed shifiting.  You sorta move the   
   > lever and try to decide when it has actually shifted.   
      
   I Never had to 'try' to decide when a gear was shifted with non-indexed   
   friction shifters, because I could always feel it, but now I have to wonder   
   *when* the selected gear will be engaged with my indexed shifters because   
   they Must always be pretty much 'perfectly' dialed in for them to work   
   right...nice when they are, Bummer when they slip even the slightest amount   
   out of adjustment - bottom line, they're really NOT WORTH IT!   
      
   High tech devices are a lot like Prima Donna 'rock stars'...more SHOW OFF   
   than Reliable Good Performance!   
      
   > Ok for plodding around the neighborhood, no good at all in competition   
   > riding.   
      
   That's what a SKILLED Rider is for...there's No Substitute for SKILLS...in   
   cycling, or Music, or anything else!   
      
   > Shifting with those is slow and pretty much limited to " step shifting ",   
   > going one gear at a time, up or down.   
      
   I've always been able to 'skip shift', that is, go through the gears with   
   one motion rather than one gear at a time, even with my twist grip indexed   
   shifters,   
   and of course, always with friction lever shifters.   
      
   > Sure, you can slam the lever hard and jump a few gears at once, but you   
   > won't have any idea what gear you're in ... without looking, and looking   
   > down and back at a freewheel is STUPID in a race.   
      
   It's not a slam, rather a smooth, quick movement of the shifter, but you'll   
   Feel it and can see by the position of the shifters, where you're at,   
   particularly with levers - I Never had any problem with that.   
      
   But in any case, it's absolutely mandatory to have enough of a load on the   
   chain all the while so that it travels easily, quickly, and safely through   
   the gears...and I've yet to see any high tech Gimmick that can accomplish   
   that - it's all up to the rider's Skill because either too much or too   
   little of a load could cause problems in shifting, and maybe even   
   damage...particularly when going through a large range in a short time in   
   essentially one motion.   
      
   And it's also important while  doing that, to keep just enough of a load on   
   the   
   drivetrain to not only feel everything, but to ensure the shift will be a   
   smooth and reliable one...i.e. that the derailleur has properly engaged the   
   gear, if even for the slightest moment on its way to the next one.   
      
   > The levers on one of my favorite Schwinns are non indexing, friction   
   > style, and on the downtube.  They were lovingly called " suicide "   
   > shifters.   
      
   I never liked them way down there and if I would have ended up with a bike   
   that had them, I'd remount them higher up, on the stem.   
      
   > And with real good reason. To shift, you had to let go of the handlebars   
   > with one hand, then reach down and fiddle with the shift lever.   
      
   With the stem mounted shifters, one hand had to be moved off the handlebar   
   to shift, but it was a short reach and that was never a problem for me.   
   Also, stem mounted shifters made it practical to use either hand to access   
   either shifter if for any reason, that were ever to become necessary.   
   About the only improvement I'd like  to make to stem mounted shifters would   
   be horizontal extensions, to the left for the left lever and right for the   
   right lever. But that's too much like sensible...like those great extensions   
   on ramshorn 'racing' bars that allowed full actuation of the brakes while   
   gripping the bar on top for a more comfortable riding position - and they   
   don't even make those anymore! Now *that's* Really Stupid!!!   
   Because I rode a friend's bike and she had them...and the other kind of one   
   of the very best centerpull brakes around, Weinmann brakes. And I couldn't   
   care less what others might say against the brake handle extensions - I used   
   them and they worked so well that if I ever had a bike with the 'drop bars',   
   but also with the extensions, that would probably keep me from replacing the   
   handlebar with something more comfortable, at least for a good   
   while...because when I bought my mixte frame Superia 10 speed brand new from   
   a bike shop, it had a drop bar, so I had the techs replace it with a nice   
   touring touring bar.   
      
   > Yes, some versions of non-indexed put the levers up on the handlebar stem,   
   > or even on the ends of the bars ( bar end ) Either of those STILL require   
   > letting go of the bars with one hand to shift.  Not serious race stuff at   
   > all.   
      
   Maybe not for casual 'white knuckle racing' ;) but for more Practiced   
   riders, why not?   
   I knew of 18 wheeler drivers who went all white knuckled when they were in   
   tight spots...but I'd learned how to do it right and didn't have that   
   problem - just like neophyte student pilots who insist on 'strangling' the   
   yoke with both hands...but I had some good instructors who taught me to fly   
   with one hand on the yoke and the other on the throttle...so I learned some   
   Good habits.   
   Same thing with pistol shooters who feel they *must* have both hands on the   
   weapon. I've Never fired a sidearm with two hands and don't plan to...no   
   reason to, because Practice is what matters, there, or flying planes,   
   driving big trucks, or riding bikes.   
      
   And it also depends if you're going too slow for no-hands riding. My older   
   bikes' forks   
   were curved forward enough so that it was never a problem at any speed, but   
   the 21 speed Huffy Hawthorne hybrid I ride now has a straight, shock   
   absorber fork and will tend to 'dive' left or right under about 12 mph, in   
   other words, it's 'twitchy'...and   
   it also has the shortest wheelbase of any bike I've ever had, but keeping   
   one hand on the  bar isn't a problem for me...even when I'd like to ride   
   no-hands ;)   
      
   > And we were talking race bikes here, at least I was :-) If you want to   
   > have those on a neighborhood cruiser, then have at it.   
      
   I prefer to be somewhat comfortable when I ride ;)   
   Those race bikes look painfully uncomfortable...rider is bent way over and   
   the  neck is bent way upward to see the road - an "S" shaped spine...I guess   
   downtube mounted   
   shifters wouldn't be all that dangerous from that painful position...at   
   least with a recumbent, there's still the aerodynamic wedge shape but it's   
   in a comfortable position!   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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