From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2017082014221935799-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Had some sleep.  Bottom line, the issue is one of our guys, not me, not   
   > the girl, not wife on drums ... someone else -   :-)   -   just isn't   
   > adjusting to the stage level we work at.  He has his own band, the one I   
   > sat in with on guitar last week, and they are old school LOUD.  Simply   
   > absolutely as loud as they can possibly get. No limit at all, play as loud   
   > as you can stand. That's what they do.   
      
   I can't stand it very loud at all...90 dB *temporarily* is More than   
   plenty!!!   
      
   > So, put that guy on stage with us, in a concert situation, with him ubeing   
   > the only person onstage who insisted on using an amp ....... and well,   
   > that's the mess we found ourselves in. We  ( me and singer girl ) weren't   
   > using IEM's because he doesn't have any.  We weren't using big loud floor   
   > wedges because WE don't have any ( anymore ).  We did use some JBL   
   > sidefill monitors.  Electronic drums, no amps, it sounded great. I could   
   > hear and sing and was happy as a bug. Until we actually started the show,   
   > and his volume went thru the ceiling.   
      
   Should have just went over to his amp and showed him what COUNTERclockwise   
   means regarding the volume control...and maybe even further demonstrated it   
   on his throat if he didn't get the message!   
      
   > That's a thing some people do, they sound check at a whisper, then come up   
   > to their actual levels once the show starts. That's his game. I sorta   
   > understand. Projection.  He does that, and thinks we do too ... play games   
   > soundchecking really low so as to get the hottest mic possible.  We don't.   
      
   > He's not use to modern stage setups, and thinks he has to crank it out to   
   > be heard.   
      
   What's 'modern' got to do with! The laws of physics are anything but   
   'modern', in fact, they're quite ancient actually...but they hold as true   
   today as they did since long before time immemorial - too much Amplitude   
   i.e. volume...too much Damage to hearing...too much Damage to hearing for   
   too long...Less and LESS ability to hear, until NO MORE HEARING AT ALL!!!   
      
   > The idea of letting the pa do the work of projection to the crowd doesn't   
   > cross his mind, apparently.  He played as tho he personally needed to fill   
   > the area ( it was an outdoor show ) with sound.   
      
   Maybe my church's sound person was doing his sound before...because   
   sometimes that's how I feel about it as a result ;)   
      
   > All that did was swamp the stage with his guitar.   
      
   Are you sure that's attributable to merely is Ignorance rather than to an   
   Serious Ego Problem?   
      
   > He buried the nice even stage mix.  And then things went to shit. Luckily,   
   > it didn't affect the girl much. She spent years in loud bar bands and can   
   > tune the band right out.   
      
   And 'tuning the band right out' keeps getting easier as the ability to hear   
   slowly but surely fades away, forever!   
      
   > Biggest loser was loud guy.   
      
   Only if he lost some teeth along with his, and everyone else's hearing!!!   
      
   > He did wreck a few of his songs due to not being able to hear any music   
   > but himself.  I realized fast the problem and didn't sing much except   
   > harmony.  She can deal with bad stage mix a lot better than me.   
      
   Performing is supposed to be a Labor of Love, NOT a THREATENING ORDEAL!!!   
      
   > I got an " earfull " on the drive home from wife ( drummer ).  Wife was   
   > livid that his guitar amp was overpowering her IEM's.  She was using hers.   
   > Seems they will only go so loud, and an amp a few feet way playing out out   
   > of time with the rest of use will overpower her buds.   
      
   Like ANY other *professional* equipment, IEMs are intended to be used by   
   *Mature* *grown up* *adults!!!   
   An IDIOT who insists on using their own amp and then turning it waaaaay up,   
   OR an IDIOT who doesn't know how to do sound will BOTH render them   
   useless!!!   
      
   > I've had guys in other pands tell me this same thing. One loud guy on   
   > stage and IEM's are useless.  In my case, I couldn't use IEM's with this   
   > band until one of the previous guitar players quit.  Reason ?   The IEM's   
   > I had were designed to not go over about 112 db.  If the stage level is   
   > higher than that, you can forget using them.  And, the ones our drummer   
   > had last night were exactly that same model.   
      
   Next time, just have to tell him that if he wants to play, he'll just have   
   to go through the PA.   
      
   > To be totally honest, we weren't that loud, 112db, at least not where I   
   > was standing.   
      
   I don't know at what distance that level was measured, but it sure seems   
   plenty of loud, as in Dangerous.   
      
   > But we were much louder than our very minimal monitor setup could handle.   
   > We don't play loud. We don't have the gear setup to play loud. If someone   
   > insists on doing that, they will just swamp the entire stage sound. Which   
   > is what happened.   
      
   Then you'll need to establish STRICT PARAMETERS beforehand and stick to   
   them!   
      
   > Today I feel better. I'm not upset. I'm not blaming anyone. It was just a   
   > mismatch between what he is use to, and how we work.  Not his fault. Just   
   > how it turned out.   
      
   Go over parameters at the very beginning and then there will be no more such   
   mismatches.   
      
   > I'm sure it didn't sound all that bad to the audience. The problem was   
   > that WE couldn't hear.  So we made some mistakes. Live bands do that. We   
   > laughed it off, never stopped or anything, and got thru the gig.   
      
   I put up with that at church all the time...and I'm SICK of it...and in this   
   case, it's the result of Incompetent soundwork!   
   But the horrors of not hearing yourself or as I put it, playing on the very   
   edge, the very threshold of perceptibility is to say the very least, a VERY   
   UNEASY, UNNERVING Confidence-Depleting sensation!!!   
      
   Now, how to not EVER have this happen again.   
      
      
   Jim   
      
   Establish parameters, particularly where sound pressure levels are   
   concerned, and DEMAND THAT THEY BE STRICTLY ADHERED  TOO!!!   
      
   Ouisie   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)