From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:2017101023180198242-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Ferro fluid does sound kind of gimmicky.  I say that because the stuff is   
   > so expensive. It would seem it would be far more cost effective to build a   
   > beefier driver than to just double the cost by adding the fluid ??   
      
   Ferrofluid is one of those 'whizzy' inventions that's fascinating to see   
   demonstrated, but in reality has very few needful uses. Perhaps it's best   
   use is as an airtight seal around spinning motor shafts, such as on hard   
   drives, to keep the disc platters totally dust free...but it'll never be any   
   kind of substitute for a more robust loudspeaker design. Perhaps on   
   extremely tiny speakers, like those in cell phones, or the one on my Tascam   
   DR-05 digital recorder, ferrofluid would be a good idea considering that:   
   1. the speaker is so tiny and fragile, almost any amount of power over a few   
   hundred mW would fry it, and:   
   2. there has to be enough power to be able to hear it, and:   
   3. the power level will NEVER exceed a very small value...but for bigger   
   more powerful speakers, a good power tolerant design is the way to go,   
   particularly with overcranking the output.   
      
   > Well, yeah. :-)   
      
   At my church, it's time to replace the sound person....that'll change the   
   mixing ;)   
      
   > The levels weren't any lower than normal. We were right up to the normal   
   > limit,,,, that fine line where the monitors were maxed ( just under total   
   > feedback kaos, and with the drums STILL occationally totally masking the   
   > tracks to the point the girl lost the beat on a few songs.   
      
   > How does that happen, you might ask.   
      
   Yes, as in how can one lose the beat while there's a drummer?   
      
   > Well, I believe it's because the drummer plays louder than his headphones   
   > can go. You can look this sort of things up, but the headphones probably   
   > max out at around 100 or so db.  Then, play the drums louder than that....   
   > in the 105  - 108 range, and guess what .... you can't hear the bassline   
   > in the phones any more.   
      
   So that means that the beat is lost because the drummer can't play a   
   consistent beat?   
      
   > Now, here's the thing. We can't hear the bassline either at that point, so   
   > singer girl is doing her best to say at tempo.   
      
   I've played with drummers who can't keep a steady beat/tempo, but so long as   
   I can hear the drums, I can play along, adjusting my playing tempo to match   
   the drums...not my favorite way to go, but I've done it before, too many   
   times.   
      
   > And the drummer, who also can't hear the tracks anymore, starts following   
   > the singing.   
      
   I can, have, and still do follow the  singing, or, the guitar, or the drums,   
   or the  bass, so I can do my part to notice a trainwreck in the making and   
   head it off before it actually happens entirely...done that many tiimes   
   before too..TOOOOOOO many times!!!   
      
   Perhaps the solution is for everyone to Practice with the clicks until they   
   get used to a tighter timing and then play without them.   
      
   > This sounds ok for a few beats / measures .. or until the singer takes a   
   > breath, or the drummer lets up a bit. Then, opps .... for a few beats you   
   > can hear the tracks ... and guess what ??? We're off.   
      
   That's why it's probably best to use the clicks...unless you're referring to   
   more than just clicks.   
      
   > That's the trap with backing tracks. If the drummer wants to go his own   
   > way, he'll drag the entire band off into the weeds him.   
      
   I can't say I'd enjoy playing an actual performance with a recording either   
   )   
      
   > Bottom line. He either isn't able to, or doesn't want to, stay with the   
   > tracks. In his world, he leads, the bass should follow him. He says he   
   > needs to hear it, but obviously not. If he really needed to hear it, he's   
   > play at a level where he could.  I understand this. It's how he learned to   
   > play. There was a bass player, and well, so what. He could either stay   
   > with the drums, or not. Drummer guy didn't care.  So it fell on the   
   > bassist to stay with the drums. I know this as we've used several   
   > different live bassists over the years, all with the same results. Either   
   > they play catch up with the drums or the song falls apart.   
      
   I'd be too embarrassed to go on stage and play with a recording....although   
   no problem for practice because I do that all the time.   
      
   > What our drummer is really listening too are the vocals.  He plays along   
   > with those, everything else be damned   
      
   Sounds like he doesn't like recordings Polluting a Live shoe too ;)   
      
   Isn't it bad enough that we far too often have to endure the INDIGNITY of   
   interacting with machines and their recordings when we call various   
   institutions hoping to instead talk to a Real Live person as it Should be?   
   Isn't that Disgusting enough?   
   Does that have to continue on stage as well?   
      
   > Ha. Or, do like a drummer I knew who did live radio shows. Muffle the   
   > drums by filling them with batting.   
      
   > Oh. The. Horror.   
      
   One church I originally went to actually had an enclosure for the drummer.   
      
   > Doing that would ruind the sound.   Volume plays backset to some purist "   
   > tone " that only comes from playing the drums as loud as possible.  Yep,   
   > I've actually been told that by more than one drummer.   
      
   They were copping out because they don't have the Skill to play quieter!   
      
   > This isn't an uncommon thing.  Lots of drummers just don't get it. That's   
   > why churches end up with the plexiglass cages.   
      
   I'm so Blessed to be playing with the best drummer I've ever played with!   
      
   > Absolutely they were. We couldn't possibly get away with cranking the   
   > mains up to those levels.   
      
   Then the monitors had effectively become the mains...that's Terrible!   
      
   > A nice duo would be the way to go.   
      
   If I can build the kind of sound for my keyboards that I'm looking  for,   
   that's the  idea...we'll be a 'power duo' ;)   
      
   > I don't have any trust in trying to find technical solutions to human   
   > problems.  We've been trying for years to get the stage volume under   
   > control. It's amazing we have any gigs at all.  A few places will let us   
   > roar, but those are limited.  It's the same with almost all the bands   
   > around here. We're not the loudest by any measure. In fact, I've been told   
   > by several other musicians we're probably the quietest.  What does that   
   > say about local bands in this area ?   Not much.   
      
   It says that deafness is on the way, because STUPIDITY abounds!!!   
      
   > We had one guy last week at our gig who was bemoaning the loss of his 4   
   > night a week house gig. He had lots of reasons why the place went under,   
   > and maybe there was some validity to his points. But, we've been there.   
   > And the big elephant in the room is that they played so loud no one with   
   > anything like normal hearing would ever go there .....more than once.   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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