From: someone@anywheret.net   
      
   "JimD"  wrote in message news:201710152330006022-email@nowherecom...   
      
   > Selective eq will help a little, but isn't that more of a recording trick   
   > than something that can be used live ?  Meaning, it'll help a little, but   
   > not a lot. So when the volume war starts, it won't be much help.   
      
   It's no trick, but a proven technique, and it works wherever sound is being   
   done, recording, or reinforcement.   
   Uniquely 'shaping' each sound source defines it and make it stand out, so   
   each sound source can be clearly and distinctly heard without their being   
   confused because they're sharing too many of the same frequencies.   
      
   > I've been to concerts in nice halls where there was no electronic   
   > amplification at all.  And I could hear just fine.   
      
   There was a time when acoustics was as much an art as a science and some   
   amazing venues were built...long before electronics came along.   
      
   > Well, ok, it was classical music. Played on real ( not fake ) instruments.   
      
   Played on entirely acoustic instruments....where the players' own energy was   
   all that was available for power, and the efficiency of the instrument was   
   all there was for transferring it to the surrounding atmosphere...no wonder   
   those concert halls were designed so well...they absolutely had to be.   
      
   > In my experience, rock and roll and stupid loud are the same thing.   
      
   Don't go blaming it on rock & roll...ANY use of amplifiers has the potential   
   to move in that direction.   
      
   > Are you saying that orchestral players are capable of dynamics ?   
      
   Any musician is - whether or not they choose to avail themselves it is an   
   entirely different matter however.   
      
   > Next thing you'll try and tell me they only play when they have a written   
   > part, as opposed to all jamming away all the time in a sort of contest to   
   > see who can be the loudest or fastest  :-)   
      
   If they're playing from notation, they do, but I'm sure many of them know   
   how the piece goes and therefore don't always need to read it (with their   
   eyes) so they can add some variations and even jam...unless they're COPYING   
   the score precisely...but Jamming is more Fun!!!   
      
   > A rock buddy of mine tried to do that in in his band.  He didn't, the   
   > sound guy did, but point is they tried.  It still sounded like a jumbled   
   > mess to my ears.   
      
   Poor soundwork - just like at my church...too much of that around.   
      
   > If you have a bass player and you can't get the keyboard guy to lay off   
   > the bass lines ... it'll be a mess no matter how you eq it.   
      
   I play bass lines on keys only when there is no bass player, otherwise, no   
   problem not playing them.   
      
   > Turning excessive volume down AND learning a little about dynamics AND   
   > learning a lot about leaving room in your playing for others to get a note   
   > in now and then ......   
      
   I'm glad the new band I'm in has no such problems, and there are 6 of us.   
      
   > we agree they are stupid.   
      
   It's  pretty hard not to, because they're everywhere ;)   
      
   > I had my hearing tested over the weekend.  Guess what ?   After seeing the   
   > results, and having a nice talk with the audioligist, we'll be turning it   
   > ( the band ) down, or I'm out.   
      
   To quote some lyrics from Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, "Should have been   
   done long ago"!   
      
   > Volume is the Achillies heel of rock and roll bands.  It'll kill it   
   > eventually.  Already is around here.  Clubs are going to duo's and trio's   
   > ... and one big reason is to get the volume down.   
      
   Not if it's a power duo, or power trio.   
   Even someone totally solo can get Stupid loud, if their amp has the power   
   and they crank it too much.   
      
   > Not ego at all.  Just good business.  I've seen this up close and real,   
   > with name acts.  Once the star is onstage, the volume drops like a dock.   
      
   I've learned from my God, and thus, like Him, I'm not a respecter of   
   persons, that is, *who* one is means Nothing to me, but rather HOW one   
   is...now  That's what Really matters!!!   
   When I play, I do so in such a way that everyone is easily heard...I do it   
   for the singers at church all the time.   
      
   > In Ear Monitors .... same thing .... the big money singers are tired of   
   > having their hearing fried by some loud drummer.   
      
   I would think they'd have been into protecting their hearing for quite some   
   time ;)   
      
   > Did I mention I had my hearing tested over the weekend ????    They told   
   > me that whatever it was I was doing to pummel my ears, I should stop it.   
   > Really, they said that :-)  Or, I could start thinking about what sort of   
   > hearing aid I'd like in the not so distant future.   
      
   Do you really need someone else to suggest that?   
   I'll NEVER let some IDIOT Damage my hearing and end up with a hearing aid!   
      
   > They were.   Live sound is too slippery.   I'm sure you've played with 1/3   
   > octave RTA's.   
      
   I don't recall the resolution but they were quite a bit higher than 1/3rd   
   octave.   
      
   We did have a very portable battery powered one that was lower   
   resolution...never used it much so I don't remember all the details.   
      
   > All it takes to get totally different reading is often to move the pickup   
   > mic a few inches.  So where do you measure from ?   A   
      
   Measure from where the audience will be, but for defining sonic   
   'signatures', you don't have to do any of that, just adjust the frequencies   
   of all sound sources so they don't confuse.   
      
   > And moreso, how do you adjust for temporary threshold shift in the   
   > audience as the show progresses ?   We never could solve that, back in the   
   > day.  We'd eq in a largely empty hall, then once the sow started, all that   
   > was a waste of time. I understand you're talking about notch eq-ing   
   > individual instruments here, but the point is the same. It just won't   
   > really work in most live ( and constantly changing ) situations.  Or at   
   > least that's what we found.   
      
   It will help prevent the muddy, undefined, confused sound of too many sound   
   sources sharing too many of the exact same frequencies.   
      
   > I suppose if your pa is some really pathetic mismatch of cabs, boosting or   
   > cutting certain ranges might help. But in that case, a better solution   
   > would be to put together a better pa in the first place :-)   
      
   Jim   
      
   Or go full stereo...I  think there's a lot to be said for that;)   
      
   Ouisie   
      
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