9bcfd7eb
XPost: soc.culture.usa, alt.fan.adolf-hitler, rec.arts.movies.current-films
XPost: rec.aviation.military
From: keithnospam@demon.co.uk
deemsbill@aol.com wrote:
> On May 11, 6:51 pm, "Keith Willshaw" wrote:
>> deemsb...@aol.com wrote:
>>> On May 11, 1:44 pm, "Keith Willshaw"
>>> wrote:
>>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>> deemsb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Since 1776? Well under one million.
>>
>>>>> I don't understand...
>>>>> there was a hundred million people in China in 1776, why
>>>>> couldn't there be a hundred million people in America in 1776?
>>
>>>> Because China was a long established Agrarian society
>>>> that had sophisticated farming techniques, had excellent
>>>> metallurgical skills and a stable well ordered society.
>>
>>>> Pre Columbian North America was largely populated by
>>>> nomadic hunter gatherers who were living in the neolithic
>>>> had almost no domesticated animals.
>>
>>> Actually, most of them were farmers who supplemented their diet
>>> with hunting/gathering/fishing.
>>
>> This was true of the mound building culture of the Mississippian
>> period but for reasons that are still not clear that society seems
>> to have collapsed in the mid 15th century. When Hernando de Soto
>> explored
>> the area in the 1540's he encountered some remnants of that society
>> but for the most part the tribes he encountered were mainly hunter
>> gatherers.
>
> De Soto described the riverbanks "teeming" with villages and
> fields. When LaSalle came through a century later, it was practically
> a wasteland.
>
>>
>> The collapse of the mound builders civilization and the Anasazi seems
>> to coincide with the climate change event know as the little
>> ice age. Whatever the cause the great city of Cahokia seems to
>> have been abandoned around 1400.
>
> Probably imploded from environmental degradation,.....so much for
> Indians being great stewards of nature.
>
>>
>> The diseases carried by De Soto's men seems to have accelerated the
>> trend. By the time the first British/American settlers reached these
>> areas the culture had all but disappeared. Only in the south west
>> among the Hopi and Navajo did agriculture still form the main
>> way of life.
>
> Sorry, but this is just wrong. All of the tribes initially
> contacted in New England (mainly Algonquians) and farther south along
> the coast were farmers. As were the Cherokee and Creek. The Iroquois
> also farmed quite extensively. They also hunted, fished and gathered,
> but maize and squash were large parts of their diet. Some even farmed
> native wild rice.
>
> They mainly used slash and burn...farmed an area for a couple years
> and then moved on to another. As their numbers grew, they became more
> sedentary and farming became more important.
>
>>
>> The ancient center in Ohio that is called Fort Ancient had been
>> abandoned by the time the first Europeans arrived and the area
>> was inhabited by the Shawnee who were much less sedentary.
>
> But were still farmers. Farmers don't have to be sedentary.
>
>>
>> Another factor was the vicious wars of the 17th century fought
>> between the Iriquois and Algonquian Indians in the region
>>
>> The notion that the Native Americans lived in some sort of mystic
>> harmony is just new age twaddle. By 1670 the Iriquois had
>> pushed the Algonquin out of much of Ohio and Michigan.
>
> True. The notion that North America was some kind of pristine
> nature preserve where a few bands of hunter-gatherers roamed is also
> wrong.
A claim I have never made. It was a severaly stressed environment that
had seen a major population collapse.
Keith
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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