XPost: sci.archaeology, sci.astro, alt.messianic   
   From: Kenthz@comcast.net   
      
   Doug Weller wrote:   
      
   > On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:23:50 -0700, in sci.archaeology, Roy Jose Lorr   
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >   
   >>Doug Weller wrote:   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>>On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:22:53 -0700, in sci.archaeology, Roy Jose Lorr   
   >>>wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>>Doug Weller wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>On Sun, 17 Jun 2007 07:35:55 -0700, in sci.archaeology, Roy Jose Lorr   
   >>>>>wrote:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>Mark Isaak wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:40:57 -0700, Linda Lee wrote:   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>[...]   
   >>>>>>>>Since fear of God (and God's punishment) is the reason many atheists   
   >>>>>>>>reject God, yes, a night spent experiencing the supernatural would   
   >>>>>>>>probably be a very terrifying night for such people.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>You are greatly ignornant on the subject of atheism.  Fear of God's   
   >>>>>>>punishment could be a reason for rejecting God, but rejecting God does   
   >>>>>>>not equate to disbelieving in God.  In fact, one logically must *not* be   
   >>>>>>>an atheist in order to believe in God enough to fear him.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>On the other hand, rejection of God can lead, over time, to ignoring   
   God,   
   >>>>>>>which can become a sort of atheism by default.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>On the third hand, fear of God's punishment is an extremely rare reason   
   >>>>>>>for rejecting God.  At least, I have never heard of it happening.  A   
   much   
   >>>>>>>more common reason for rejecting God is hatred of God for what he has   
   >>>>>>>done.  Usually this happens when people who are raised to believe that   
   >>>>>>>God is Good have bad things happen to them, despite their sincere   
   >>>>>>>prayers.  The God they were promised was demostrably not there.  Of   
   >>>>>>>course, the problem is more with the promises than with God, but it's   
   not   
   >>>>>>>like "God is good" is a fringe belief.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>Getting back to atheism, there are three main reasons (that I know of)   
   >>>>>>>why people choose it.  The first is similar to the above reason for   
   >>>>>>>rejecting God, except more impersonal.  The theists say that a God has   
   >>>>>>>certain qualities which people can observe, those qualities are not   
   >>>>>>>observed, ergo God does not exist.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>The second is probably the most common.  Quite simply, there is no   
   reason   
   >>>>>>>philosophically to expect a god.  Yes, there are plenty of so-called   
   >>>>>>>proofs of God, but they were debunked centuries ago.  Today, they are   
   >>>>>>>only used by the faithless to try to convince themselves.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>The third reason is the main reason why I became an athiest: the theists   
   >>>>>>>showed me, by their words and actions, that atheism was the morally   
   >>>>>>>superior position.  Consider, for example, Nomen's quote: "I truly   
   >>>>>>>believe someone has to be insane not to believe in God the Creator ..."   
   >>>>>>>I simply do not want to be around someone filled with as much bigotry as   
   >>>>>>>he is.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>Note that I am not saying that these are good reasons, nor am I trying   
   to   
   >>>>>>>convince anyone.  I simply offer these observations in hopes that they   
   >>>>>>>help you understand atheists better.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Atheists believe in God.  The belief is inherent in the   
   >>>>>>human condition... cognizance demands it.  There is no   
   >>>>>>choice in the matter.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>What planet does this guy come from?   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>The only choice is in choosing to   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>accept or reject Him.  This is a moral decision based on the   
   >>>>>>strength of the individual's dependence on their base   
   >>>>>>desires.   Those who accept God are prone to be discomforted   
   >>>>>>by those lower desires and would suppress them when they   
   >>>>>>can.  Those who reject God tend to feel discomforted when   
   >>>>>>they are advised by conscience to put limits on expressing   
   >>>>>>those same base desires freely at their own discretion.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>Formal religions are based on the natural defense mechanism   
   >>>>>>that promotes collectivization of like attitudes toward   
   >>>>>>man's imagined perceptions of his own and the world's   
   >>>>>>fallibility.  Some religions make their deity so much like   
   >>>>>>themselves that their adherents see themselves as gods,   
   >>>>>>empowered by the convenient but false tenet of Relativism,   
   >>>>>>to do as they will regardless of any constraints imposed by   
   >>>>>>God's absolute morality.  Among the man is god religions is   
   >>>>>>the religion of Atheism.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>That may be part of your belief system, but it isn't correct.   
   >>>>   
   >>>>Explain this imagined 'incorrectness'?   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>There is no point. You have decided you know THE TRUTH and you apparently   
   >>>haven't even seen the contradictions in your post above.   
   >>   
   >>Point out the 'contradictions' in my post or get of the pot.   
   >   
   >   
   > Get out of the pot? Get off the pot?   
   >   
   > Does anyone here think this guy has the ability to admit anything he says   
   > is wrong?  He's stupid enough to be posting this stuff to an archaeology   
   > and an astronomy group, he's hardly likely to realize he's talking trash.   
      
   Point out the 'contradictions' in my post or get off the pot.   
      
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