XPost: soc.culture.greek, soc.history.ancient, alt.pagan
XPost: alt.magick
From: SolomonW@citi.com
On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 19:33:37 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
> "SolomonW" wrote in message
> news:evw8lk7f6ycp$.5qbdgd4o1wri$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:42:45 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>> news:g565sv0g54iz.157rkifq0u48z$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:48:31 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Martin Edwards" wrote in message
>>>>> news:R_SGr.429269$JL5.417233@fx13.am4...
>>>>>> On 27/06/2012 21:56, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>> "David Dalton" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:dalton-A6D8BB.23310026062012@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that Dionysus and/or Adonis
>>>>>>>> once lived (as humans) and if so, when and where?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's plenty of contemporary evidence extant for Zeus, Sarapis and
>>>>>>> Jehovah..............
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm intrigued, perhaps you could post some of it. I'm open to
>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>> about Zeus, but Serapis was an amalgam of Osiris and the Apis bull,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the Tetragrammaton was never pronounced "Jehovah" in any
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong on both counts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarapis is a contraction of the name of the Hyksos king Awoserre
>>>>> Apepi(s)
>>>>> (SerreApepis) who was the Greek king Apis of Argos hence Awos(serre),
>>>>> ie.
>>>>> Re
>>>>> of Argos (with the r and gamma of Argos being corrupted to w in
>>>>> hieroglyphics). In Manethos list he appears as Apophis. His cousin
>>>>> Epaphus
>>>>> apears as Apachnas, ie. Seneferankhre Apepi. Sarapis was succeded by
>>>>> Agenor
>>>>> as king of lower Egypt and Palestine, ie. Aqenienre Apepi (hence
>>>>> Agenor)
>>>>> or
>>>>> Janins in Manetho ie. (A)qenien(re) .
>>>>>
>>>>> Zeus was Sheshi and appears in so-called Minoan king lists as
>>>>> Saasi[tepi]
>>>>> or
>>>>> Saa[si]tepi king of Lato and Tiliss in 1650 BC, ie. Lyctos and Tylissos
>>>>> both
>>>>> of which are credited as the places where Zeus was born and grew up.
>>>>> Saasitepi was the sucessor of Satur who reigned between about 1725 and
>>>>> 1675
>>>>> BC, ie Saturn or Kronos the father of Zeus/Jupiter.
>>>>
>>>> All irrelevant to the question
>>>
>>> Not at all.
>>>
>>> According to Porphyry the Greek and Phoenician gods were one and the
>>> same.
>>> Saturn, Kronos and El were all the same person, a Cretan king who ruled
>>> over
>>> the whole of Italy, Greece, Phoenicia and Palestine and who had dominion
>>> over Egypt where he put Tuthus/Thoth/Hermes (Dudimose or Tiamus in
>>> Manetho)
>>> in power. Agenor was a king of Phoenicia as well as a Greek king.
>>
>> Porphyry lived two thousands of years later.
>>
>
> Porphyry was using the Phoenician history of Sanchuniathon which was written
> in the time of Heirombalus (the biblical Juerubal) when Abibalus (the
> biblical Abimelech) was king of Berytus (Beirut) who dates to 1092 BC.
> That's within 536 years of when the original records in the possession of
> Heirombalus were written so the history would have been as accurate as any
> account still extant of the fall of Constantinople and more accurate than
> any account of the Crusades.
From what we know of it, the Sanchuniathon is not well regarded as a source
by historians for history.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> According to Sanchuniathon there were two Phoenician kings called
>>>>> Jehovah
>>>>> or
>>>>> Ieuo, ie. Pontus in Greek or the sea god Yam Nahar aka. Yaw in the Baal
>>>>> Epic, separated by 2 generations. They correspond to the Hyksos
>>>>> pharaohs
>>>>> Meruserenre Yakubher c.1675 BC and Yakobaam Sekkhaenre c.1600 BC.
>>>>
>>>> No way it could be true as Phoenician does not have vowels.
>>>
>>> Poppycock. Phoenicians has vowels just like every other language
>>> otherwise
>>> consonants would be unpronounceable. The only difference with Phoenician
>>> script and Greek script is that the vowels are not written down, but they
>>> all still exist.
>>
>> Of course they exist they are just not written so we do not know how they
>> sounded.
>>
>> The other issue is that vowels sounds change over time, try reading
>> Shakespeare without vowels, it is not so hard.
>
> You are comparing Hebrew with English. English is not an single ordinary
> language and should never be used as a basis for linguistics. It's a mish
> mash of Greek and Latin received through French and German and Viking
> invaders overlaid onto an earlier framework of Welsh.
Please read what I wrote, I am not comparing I am giving you an example.
>
> The vowels in English contrary to your claims have not changed
> pronunciation.
A lie.
Between Middle and Early Modern English (around Shakespeare's time) what
took place is known as the Great Vowel Shift.
> The reality is that due to the various invasions of this
> country there are over 100 regional variations in vowel sounds as one
> language replaced or was incorporated into an earlier one to different
> degrees in different regions.
For your information Hebrew has the same issue.
> Therefore there is no standard pronunciation
> for vowels in English and never has been so it is impossible to make such a
> claim as change. Certain texts were written using spelling from certain
> regional variations of the language and other texts used other regional
> variations. Today's standard English is just one of these regional
> variations and does not accurately reflect how 95% of the population
> actually pronounce the language. Today's spelling isn't even the way people
> even pronounced the words which are written in it.
Not true, it is mainly because when they codified the English language they
looked at the root of the word rather then how it was pronounced.
>
> In the case of Hebrew the fact that there are no vowels in the written
> language indicates that when Phoenician was first coded there wasn't a
> standard pronunciation of the vowels by any of the peoples who spoke the
> language. So any pronunciation is as good as any other.
(a)
Logic is wrong, I can read Hebrew with vowels using a number of different
pronunciations all it means is that when I see a symbol A in one type of
Hebrew I say Oo and in another I use the sound Aa.
>
> Jehovah is the Egyptian pronunciation of YHWH, the evidence is overwhelming,
> so live with it.
As I stated before this is not true.
>
>>
>> T b, r nt t b, tht s th qstn:
>>
>> I find it much more readable then the original.
>>
>
> And in Linear B it would be written
>
> T/THoU B/V/Fi OR/Li B/V/Fi D/DhaT/THi ISi D/Dhe QeWeSiT/THiON/Ma.
So what, it is irrelevant.
>
> As can be seen and contrary to Phoenician/Hebrew there was a standard
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