XPost: soc.culture.greek, soc.history.ancient, alt.pagan
XPost: alt.magick
From: SolomonW@citi.com
On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:25:30 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
> "SolomonW" wrote in message
> news:13ii3qjnxer6c$.1jc07k5vludpg.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 00:43:45 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>> news:nmmqzrug2vdh$.16hgx18adyixx.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 19:33:37 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>>>> news:evw8lk7f6ycp$.5qbdgd4o1wri$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:42:45 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:g565sv0g54iz.157rkifq0u48z$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:48:31 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Martin Edwards" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:R_SGr.429269$JL5.417233@fx13.am4...
>>>>>>>>>> On 27/06/2012 21:56, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "David Dalton" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:dalton-A6D8BB.23310026062012@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that Dionysus and/or Adonis
>>>>>>>>>>>> once lived (as humans) and if so, when and where?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's plenty of contemporary evidence extant for Zeus, Sarapis
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Jehovah..............
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm intrigued, perhaps you could post some of it. I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>>>>> about Zeus, but Serapis was an amalgam of Osiris and the Apis
>>>>>>>>>> bull,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> the Tetragrammaton was never pronounced "Jehovah" in any
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wrong on both counts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarapis is a contraction of the name of the Hyksos king Awoserre
>>>>>>>>> Apepi(s)
>>>>>>>>> (SerreApepis) who was the Greek king Apis of Argos hence
>>>>>>>>> Awos(serre),
>>>>>>>>> ie.
>>>>>>>>> Re
>>>>>>>>> of Argos (with the r and gamma of Argos being corrupted to w in
>>>>>>>>> hieroglyphics). In Manethos list he appears as Apophis. His cousin
>>>>>>>>> Epaphus
>>>>>>>>> apears as Apachnas, ie. Seneferankhre Apepi. Sarapis was succeded
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>> Agenor
>>>>>>>>> as king of lower Egypt and Palestine, ie. Aqenienre Apepi (hence
>>>>>>>>> Agenor)
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> Janins in Manetho ie. (A)qenien(re) .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Zeus was Sheshi and appears in so-called Minoan king lists as
>>>>>>>>> Saasi[tepi]
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> Saa[si]tepi king of Lato and Tiliss in 1650 BC, ie. Lyctos and
>>>>>>>>> Tylissos
>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> of which are credited as the places where Zeus was born and grew
>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>> Saasitepi was the sucessor of Satur who reigned between about 1725
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> 1675
>>>>>>>>> BC, ie Saturn or Kronos the father of Zeus/Jupiter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All irrelevant to the question
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> According to Porphyry the Greek and Phoenician gods were one and the
>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>> Saturn, Kronos and El were all the same person, a Cretan king who
>>>>>>> ruled
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> the whole of Italy, Greece, Phoenicia and Palestine and who had
>>>>>>> dominion
>>>>>>> over Egypt where he put Tuthus/Thoth/Hermes (Dudimose or Tiamus in
>>>>>>> Manetho)
>>>>>>> in power. Agenor was a king of Phoenicia as well as a Greek king.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Porphyry lived two thousands of years later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Porphyry was using the Phoenician history of Sanchuniathon which was
>>>>> written
>>>>> in the time of Heirombalus (the biblical Juerubal) when Abibalus (the
>>>>> biblical Abimelech) was king of Berytus (Beirut) who dates to 1092 BC.
>>>>> That's within 536 years of when the original records in the possession
>>>>> of
>>>>> Heirombalus were written so the history would have been as accurate as
>>>>> any
>>>>> account still extant of the fall of Constantinople and more accurate
>>>>> than
>>>>> any account of the Crusades.
>>>>
>>>> From what we know of it, the Sanchuniathon is not well regarded as a
>>>> source
>>>> by historians for history.
>>>
>>> Wrong!
>>>
>>> It's is completely corroborated by the Ras Sharma Tablets including the
>>> Baal
>>> Epic.
>>
>> We have it second hand and what we do have is hardly completely
>> corroborated. Much of it that we know about is with creation stories, gods
>> etc not history.
>
> Wrong, which proves you've neither read it or understood it.
No-one today has read it as we only have parts in secondary sources. We are
not even sure what parts we have come are from the Sanchuniathon.
>
> Sanchuniathon is a list of Phoenician kings who he states were made into
> gods by their descendants and contemporaries. The entire stated basis of
> Sanchuniathon's work comes from the fact as stated by Sanchunitathon himself
> that the Phoenician priests had discovered the original historical accounts
> of their gods preserved in their temples before the accounts were
> embellished with mythology or given religious virtue by their hierophants of
> later years. Sanchuniathon gives us the bare historical facts of these kings
> before they were made into gods and treats them as ordinary men.
From what we know it is best described as legends.
> The texts
> that he used predate and are more authentic than the Ras Sharma Tablets.
>
Get real. At least, Ras Sharma Tablets are something we can see and judge.
>>>>>>>>> According to Sanchuniathon there were two Phoenician kings called
>>>>>>>>> Jehovah
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> Ieuo, ie. Pontus in Greek or the sea god Yam Nahar aka. Yaw in the
>>>>>>>>> Baal
>>>>>>>>> Epic, separated by 2 generations. They correspond to the Hyksos
>>>>>>>>> pharaohs
>>>>>>>>> Meruserenre Yakubher c.1675 BC and Yakobaam Sekkhaenre c.1600 BC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No way it could be true as Phoenician does not have vowels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Poppycock. Phoenicians has vowels just like every other language
>>>>>>> otherwise
>>>>>>> consonants would be unpronounceable. The only difference with
>>>>>>> Phoenician
>>>>>>> script and Greek script is that the vowels are not written down, but
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> all still exist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course they exist they are just not written so we do not know how
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> sounded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other issue is that vowels sounds change over time, try reading
>>>>>> Shakespeare without vowels, it is not so hard.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are comparing Hebrew with English. English is not an single
>>>>> ordinary
>>>>> language and should never be used as a basis for linguistics. It's a
>>>>> mish
>>>>> mash of Greek and Latin received through French and German and Viking
>>>>> invaders overlaid onto an earlier framework of Welsh.
>>>>
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