XPost: soc.culture.greek, soc.history.ancient, alt.pagan
XPost: alt.magick
From: SolomonW@citi.com
On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 23:23:52 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
> "SolomonW" wrote in message
> news:1c8szu9c616wx.1tyk67feew61t.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 22:25:30 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>> news:13ii3qjnxer6c$.1jc07k5vludpg.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>> On Tue, 3 Jul 2012 00:43:45 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>>>> news:nmmqzrug2vdh$.16hgx18adyixx.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 19:33:37 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:evw8lk7f6ycp$.5qbdgd4o1wri$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 00:42:45 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "SolomonW" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:g565sv0g54iz.157rkifq0u48z$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:48:31 +0100, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Martin Edwards" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:R_SGr.429269$JL5.417233@fx13.am4...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/06/2012 21:56, Agamemnon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "David Dalton" wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:dalton-A6D8BB.23310026062012@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any evidence that Dionysus and/or Adonis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once lived (as humans) and if so, when and where?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's plenty of contemporary evidence extant for Zeus,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarapis
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jehovah..............
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm intrigued, perhaps you could post some of it. I'm open to
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestions
>>>>>>>>>>>> about Zeus, but Serapis was an amalgam of Osiris and the Apis
>>>>>>>>>>>> bull,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Tetragrammaton was never pronounced "Jehovah" in any
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong on both counts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarapis is a contraction of the name of the Hyksos king Awoserre
>>>>>>>>>>> Apepi(s)
>>>>>>>>>>> (SerreApepis) who was the Greek king Apis of Argos hence
>>>>>>>>>>> Awos(serre),
>>>>>>>>>>> ie.
>>>>>>>>>>> Re
>>>>>>>>>>> of Argos (with the r and gamma of Argos being corrupted to w in
>>>>>>>>>>> hieroglyphics). In Manethos list he appears as Apophis. His
>>>>>>>>>>> cousin
>>>>>>>>>>> Epaphus
>>>>>>>>>>> apears as Apachnas, ie. Seneferankhre Apepi. Sarapis was succeded
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> Agenor
>>>>>>>>>>> as king of lower Egypt and Palestine, ie. Aqenienre Apepi (hence
>>>>>>>>>>> Agenor)
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> Janins in Manetho ie. (A)qenien(re) .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Zeus was Sheshi and appears in so-called Minoan king lists as
>>>>>>>>>>> Saasi[tepi]
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> Saa[si]tepi king of Lato and Tiliss in 1650 BC, ie. Lyctos and
>>>>>>>>>>> Tylissos
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> of which are credited as the places where Zeus was born and grew
>>>>>>>>>>> up.
>>>>>>>>>>> Saasitepi was the sucessor of Satur who reigned between about
>>>>>>>>>>> 1725
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> 1675
>>>>>>>>>>> BC, ie Saturn or Kronos the father of Zeus/Jupiter.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All irrelevant to the question
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> According to Porphyry the Greek and Phoenician gods were one and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same.
>>>>>>>>> Saturn, Kronos and El were all the same person, a Cretan king who
>>>>>>>>> ruled
>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>> the whole of Italy, Greece, Phoenicia and Palestine and who had
>>>>>>>>> dominion
>>>>>>>>> over Egypt where he put Tuthus/Thoth/Hermes (Dudimose or Tiamus in
>>>>>>>>> Manetho)
>>>>>>>>> in power. Agenor was a king of Phoenicia as well as a Greek king.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Porphyry lived two thousands of years later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Porphyry was using the Phoenician history of Sanchuniathon which was
>>>>>>> written
>>>>>>> in the time of Heirombalus (the biblical Juerubal) when Abibalus (the
>>>>>>> biblical Abimelech) was king of Berytus (Beirut) who dates to 1092
>>>>>>> BC.
>>>>>>> That's within 536 years of when the original records in the
>>>>>>> possession
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Heirombalus were written so the history would have been as accurate
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> account still extant of the fall of Constantinople and more accurate
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> any account of the Crusades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what we know of it, the Sanchuniathon is not well regarded as a
>>>>>> source
>>>>>> by historians for history.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's is completely corroborated by the Ras Sharma Tablets including the
>>>>> Baal
>>>>> Epic.
>>>>
>>>> We have it second hand and what we do have is hardly completely
>>>> corroborated. Much of it that we know about is with creation stories,
>>>> gods
>>>> etc not history.
>>>
>>> Wrong, which proves you've neither read it or understood it.
>>
>> No-one today has read it as we only have parts in secondary sources. We
>> are
>> not even sure what parts we have come are from the Sanchuniathon.
>
> Poppycock. We know exactly which parts are from Sanchuniathon since Eusebius
> quotes the Greek translation by Porphyry as contained in Philo.
>
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Actually we are not actually sure what parts are quotes from the
Sanchuniathon and what Porphyry added.
>>
>>>
>>> Sanchuniathon is a list of Phoenician kings who he states were made into
>>> gods by their descendants and contemporaries. The entire stated basis of
>>> Sanchuniathon's work comes from the fact as stated by Sanchunitathon
>>> himself
>>> that the Phoenician priests had discovered the original historical
>>> accounts
>>> of their gods preserved in their temples before the accounts were
>>> embellished with mythology or given religious virtue by their hierophants
>>> of
>>> later years. Sanchuniathon gives us the bare historical facts of these
>>> kings
>>> before they were made into gods and treats them as ordinary men.
>>
>> From what we know it is best described as legends.
>
> Which proves you have never actually read it and know absolutely nothing
> about it. There is no such description whatsoever. It is described
> explicitly as history.
>
Not by modern historians
>>
>>
>>> The texts
>>> that he used predate and are more authentic than the Ras Sharma Tablets.
>>>
>>
>> Get real. At least, Ras Sharma Tablets are something we can see and judge.
>
> It's time for you to get real. Sanchuniathon used texts that predate the Ras
> Sharma Tablets.
>
It is possible that the Sanchuniathon was written a long time before but we
certainly today cannot verify much about its accuracy. That alone would
rule it out as a historical source.
>>
>>
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