XPost: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, alt.bible, alt.talk.creationism
XPost: talk.atheism
From: tiffirgrREVERSE@ctc.net
"Pastor Dave" wrote in message
news:sp3rc015jsd2s5sfuqm5kp0m81bh3v0f48@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:36:33 GMT,
> prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com posted thusly:
>
> >In talk.atheism Pastor Dave wrote:
> >> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 21:18:11 GMT,
> >> prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com posted thusly:
> >
> >
> >>>> Estimates place the number of animals to about ~50,000, the average
size of
> >>>> a sheep.
> >>>
> >>>And 8 people are going to care for, feed, clean up after 50,000 animals
with
> >>>no modern equipment, etc? Yeah, right.
> >
> >> The estimate isn't that high.
> >
> >Then what IS the estimate?
>
> They vary, down to 16,000.
That is an extremely small genetic bottleneck. Why doesn't it show up?
But if this is true, Dave, then the rate of actual evolution since the flood
must have been happening at an astounding rate to produce all this diversity
we see.
>
>
> >>>> over stormy seas with enough food and water, including
> >>>>> their specialized diets
> >>>
> >>>> No reason to think the conditions were stormy all the time and in
every
> >>>> location, besides, the Ark was built to float, not sail around. It's
a
> >>>> proven fact animals can make do with what is available.
> >>>
> >>>Do you know how much food and water an animal the size of a sheep takes
in a
> >>>year? A herbavore like a sheep can eat 10-15 pounds of hay a day.
That's a
> >>>volume of around 1/2 cubic foot or there-abouts. So that means you'd
need
> >>>180 cubic feet of feed per animal. So now you have a cube almost 6 foot
> >>>square per animal just for the feed. so we've got 50,000 animals that
need a
> >>>cage about 2'x5'x3' (and that's EXTREMELY cramped) as well as 6'x6'x6'
of
> >>>feed. Also water would be around 2 quarts a day min. So that's about
another
> >>>24 cubic feet per animal. Thus far we've got each animal taking up
30+180+24
> >>>or 234 cubic feet. That's a total of 11,700,000 cubic feet or a space
> >>>227'x227'x227' in size. Now the ark was in cubits, which we aren't sure
the
> >>>exact size of but it's around 1-1/2 feet. So the ark would have been
> >>>450'x75'x45' which is only 1,518,750 cubic feet (or about 1/10 the size
> >>>needed.) Even if you leave out the need for food and water, you barely
have
> >>>the 30 cubic feet just for the animal itself.
> >
> >> Your argument assume a lot of things as fact, that are
> >> not fact. You assume that none of them hibernated.
> >
> >Most animals don't hibernate.
>
> According to you, but can you name each animal that was
> there and can you vouch for their habits BEFORE the
> Flood? You also fail to account for decreased activity
> leading to less eating and more sleep.
Hmmm. So with your argument here, you are essentially postulating that not
only do we know nothing, but that we *can't* know anything.
>
>
> >> You also assume they were all adults. All you need is
> >> two babies. Just make sure to get a pink one and a
> >> blue one.
> >
> >I'mm simply going based on what he gave me (the average size of a sheep,
> >etc.)
>
> So rather than argue that something can't be true based
> on the actual scenario, you would rather argue against
> it, based on what someone told you and then claim that
> you have disproved the Ark?
>
There is a difficulty with taking babies instead of adults. I don't know if
you have ever been to a zoo, but baby animals require a lot more care and
attention than adults do. Even with your reduction by 2/3 of the total
number of animals, you are still going to have a lot of problems.
>
> >Also many animals will grow to almost full grown or even have several
> >generations of babies during the period of a year. So even if you got
> >newborns you'd still have a lot of adults at the end.
>
Can't assume newborns.
Genesis 7
1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven
[1] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every
kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind
of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the
earth. 4
> Several generations is their first year? That is not
> true. Most animals wouldn't even be ready to have
> babies in their first year.
Most. But He didn't say that most would have several generations. He said
"many" would. And I have heard of quite a few. I'll look them up later.
>
>
> >>>> - then landing in stinking muck, rotting vegetation
> >>>>> and corpses,... and everything going back to "normal." It's absurd
to
> >>>> even
> >>>>> make the comparison.
> >>>
> >>>> Not really, the analogy is quite good. The mechanics of how the
pyramids
> >>>> were built is a mystery. Clearly that ancient civilization possessed
a
> >>>> number of advanced skills to build them. We still don't know how it
was
> >>>> done. The same could be said of the Ark.
> >>>
> >>>So they had advanced skills that let them feed the animals after
landing
> >>>when there was no food available but rotting corpses and plants?
> >
> >> Food would have started growing. Did you not read the
> >> account and check the timing?
> >
> >Yes. The water covered the earth for 150 days (close to 1/2 year.) After
10
> >months, the mountain tops were visible. They emerged afer 12 months. So
> >there was still water over most of the land up till at least 2 months
before
> >they left the ark. The plains (where the people and animals would wind up
> >living) wouldn't have been dry until about the time they left the ark
(based
> >on the rate of water receeding.) Not much would have grown in just a few
> >days or weeks that there was between the time of the last of the water
> >leaving the land and the time of leaving the ark.
> >
> >Have YOU read the account and checked the timing? Obviously not.
>
> I fail to understand the problem. You need only have
> food for X amount of animals. You are not trying to
> feed an Earth full of them. There would probably also
> still be food left on the Ark.
After the door was opened, they were sent out. Or do you think Noah and
company kept the menagerie around for a while? God put the fear of man into
their nostrils, the Scripture says, so they wouldn't have stayed.
>
>
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