From: dcawdell@cox.net
Sorry - talking at cross-purposes here - I don't care about the Noah
biblical flood myth - I just want to tie in a mythical event with a
historical one.
I didn't know that there was drift wood contaminating BB's site. It seems to
reduce the find back to - there was a flood of some proportion at some time
& it did displace established human settlements. But perhaps if stone
artifacts could be recovered from the site, they might be connected to tools
of a similar design (and age) elsewhere ?
But, if there was a gradual flow of salt water from the Med, into the Black
Sea basin, I'd hope there is/was evidence of a clearly established
watercourse through the Bosphorus valley & into the Black Sea basin, down to
the level of the fresh water lake.
If there was a flash flood, I'd hope to see evidence of the transportation
of much more material, over a greater distance from the egress of the
Bosphorus Valley than would occur with a gradual flood (higher flow rate,
etc.).
For a tie-breaker - if there was a flash flood, I'd expect evidence of a
mass extinction of fresh water organisms at a specific point, followed
chronologically by evidence of salt water organisms. If the flood was more
gradual, I must see salt water AND fresh water organisms in the same
strata/time period.
I'm kind of awaiting developments on this. But if the evidence of a 10K BP
flow of water from the Black Sea to the Med is quality evidence, it
significantly harms the flash flood theory. All I could figure that might
account for that, would be that glaciation in the Bosphorus Valley left a
massive dike of terminal moraine - but somehow that sounds a flimsy excuse.
My problem is that I am interested in just about everything in the universe
from dark energy to art history to politics - unless someone makes a quality
1-hour documentary, I may not hear about any progress in this research. (but
I do plan on studying geology, when I retire in a few years - can't wait).
"Daryl Krupa" wrote in message
news:c70365ef.0409071522.61eacc85@posting.google.com...
> "Rufio" wrote in message
news:...
> > I think some folk got Bob to say more than he intended - or just
incorrectly
> > attributed statements to him.
> >
> > But he did come up with evidence of a monumental (dare I say biblical)
> > flood at around the right time 7000-8000 years ago. The TV coverage
> > I've seen, has BB specifically saying that this does NOT in any way
> > prove Genesis or the idea tha Noah existed, or that this was even the
> > Noah flood. But now, not only is there a sound scientific theory for
> > how a "biblical'" flood COULD have occured, we (appear to) have an
> > actual example......cool !
>
>
> Rufio:
> Nope, that "theory" was never more than an untested hypothesis,
> which immediately failed several and various tests, not to mention
> that
> part of it (the earthen dam across the Bosphorus) was pure fantasy.
>
> It was never sound. One of the supposed co-authors (Naci Gorur)
> was the co-author of a later scientific article debunking the BSFlood,
> and oddly enough, in Ryan and Pitman's book, he is only mentioned as
> sharing lunch with them, and his supposed contribution to their
> one and only scientific article on the subject is not described there.
> Ryan and Pitman's original article was sloppy science, and IMHO,
> _Marine Geology_ should not have published it.
>
> Sadly, you, and maybe millions of other people,
> have been misled on this subject.
>
> Alas, there was no "Noachian" Black Sea Flood, and
> the science in William Ryan's and Walter Pitman's book
> "Noah's Flood: the event that changed history" has in
> several cases been superceded by better information that
> indicates that there was no such event, and was in most
> cases preceded by evidence that indicated that there was
> no such event.
> Ryan and Pitman set out to overturn the orthodox view of
> the history of the Black Sea, but they have apparently
> abandoned their hypothesis, if more recent articles
> co-authored by Ryan are any indication.
> The orthodox view has prevailed, subject to some recent
> modifications.
>
> There is evidence that there was an _outflow_ southward
> from the Black Sea through the Bosphorus into the Mediterranean
> from more than 10000 years ago
> (well before Ryan and Pitman's initial 5600 BCE flood date),
> continuously until the present day, though there may have been
> a relatively short interruption.
> And evidence from the south shore of the Black sea shows that
> the level of the Black Sea was only 18 m below the present level
> at the time of the supposed flood.
> The more recent claim by Ryan puts the flood date at 8400 BP,
> or about 9000 years ago, but then the "floodwaters" through the
> Bosphorus channel would have been only about 5 metres deep.
> 9000 years ago is when everybody else always thought that
> Mediterranean saltwater first entered the Black Sea. At about
> that time, the last phase of Glacial Lake Agassiz, in central
> Canada, finally found an outlet to the sea through or under the
> remnants of the Laurentide Ice Sheet, and so out into the North
> Atlantic, raising sea level an appreciable amount, and _perhaps_
> triggering a sudden inflow of saltwater into the Black Sea basin.
> But probably not sudden or great enough to inspire a Noachian
> Flood myth.
> Better candidates are widespread inundation of low-lying parts
> of the Persian Gulf associated with the final draining of Glacial
> Lake Agassiz, and similar flooding of the Tigris-Euphrates delta,
> and (most likely) simultaneous flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates,
> which would have looked like a flooding of the entire world from
> the viewpoint of a person near present-day Baghdad. These candidates
> could each or all have inspired the flood myth in the epic of
> Gilgamesh, which predates the first known appearance of the Noachian
> Flood myth.
>
> Check this out, for a layman-friendly synopsis of the refutation:
>
> http://home.entouch.net/dmd/bseaflod.htm
>
> On the draining of Glacial Lake Agassiz:
>
> http://cgrg.geog.uvic.ca/abstracts/PerkinsOnceDuring.html
>
> Full article:
>
>
http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?DOCID=1G1:94334735&refi
=ip_encyclopedia_hf&COOKIE=NO
>
> And here's a fairly recent news item on refutation of Ryan's
> and Pitman's hypothesis:
>
> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/4949335.htm
>
>
> January 14, 2003
>
> Scientists are seriously challenging a recent, fascinating proposal
> that Noah's epic story -- setting sail with an ark jam-full of animal
> couples -- was based on an actual catastrophic flood that suddenly
> filled the Black Sea 7,500 years ago, forcing people to flee.
>
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