XPost: alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, alt.bible, alt.talk.creationism   
   XPost: alt.atheism   
   From: calee@optonline.net   
      
   On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:06:53 GMT,    
   wrote:   
      
   >   
   >The book China—A History in Art tells us that one of the ancient rulers of   
   >China was Yü, “the conqueror of the Great Flood. Yü channeled flood   
   >waters into rivers and seas to resettle his people.” Mythology expert   
   >Joseph Campbell wrote about the Chinese “Period of the Great Ten,”   
   >saying: “To this important age, which terminates in a Deluge, ten   
   >emperors were assigned in the early Chou-time mythology. Hence,   
   >it appears that what we are viewing here may be a local   
   >transformation of the series of the old Sumerian king list.” Campbell   
   >then cited other items from Chinese legends that appeared to   
   >“reinforce the argument for a Mesopotamian source.” That takes us   
   >back to the same basic source of many myths. However, the story of   
   >the Flood also appears in the Americas, for example, in Mexico during   
   >the period of the Aztecs in the 15th and 16th centuries C.E.   
      
   You need to learn the difference between "a" and "the".   
      
   And you're mis-citing Campbell as a bogus argument from authority. He   
   certainly never thought that (a) the Genesis flood actually happened,   
   nor (b) that it was described in other myths.   
      
   Civilisations grew up where it was fertile. The Fertile Crescent (ie   
   the Tigris and Euphrates valleys) are/were subject to regular   
   catastrophic flooding which deposited material washed down from   
   upstream.   
      
   It is hardly surprising that cultures living alongside rivers had   
   flood stories.   
      
   Or that those that don't, don't have them.   
      
   The Egyptians had flood stories too - but because Nilotic flooding was   
   benign not catastrophic, they weren't disaster stories.   
      
   There is no reason to assume that the flood stories from the other   
   mythologies are about the same flood as the Biblical one, which IF it   
   ever happened certainly wasn't world-wide. There is zero evidence for   
   a world-wide flood and plenty against, eg civilisations that DIDN'T   
   EVEN NOTICE THEY WERE SUPOSED TO BE DROWNING, the sheer volume of   
   water required, the fact that ice cores, varves etc do not show what   
   would be expected IF there had been such a flood, the fact that older   
   artifacts in eg Egypt show no evidence that they were ever under water   
   (eg mummification wouldn't even happen), etc etc.   
      
   >Aztec mythology spoke of four previous ages, during the first of which   
   >the earth was inhabited by giants. (That is another reminder of the   
   >Nephilim, the giants referred to in the Bible at Genesis 6:4.) It included   
      
   No, you only rationalise that based on your pre-existing beliefs.   
   There is no reason to presume they were the same OR that they were he   
   Nephelim.   
      
   >a primeval flood legend in which “the waters above merge with those   
   >below, obliterating the horizons and making of everything a timeless   
   >cosmic ocean.” The god controlling rain and water was Tlaloc.   
      
   A different deity.   
      
   >However, his rain was not obtained cheaply but was given “in   
   >exchange for the blood of sacrificed victims whose flowing tears   
   >would simulate and so stimulate the flow of rain.” (Mythology—An   
   >Illustrated Encyclopedia) Another legend states that the fourth   
   >era was ruled by Chalchiuhtlicue, the water-goddess, whose   
   >universe perished by a flood. Men were saved by becoming fish!   
      
   A completely different legend.   
      
   >Similarly, the Incas had their Flood legends.   
      
   So what?   
      
   >British writer Harold Osborne states: “Perhaps the most ubiquitous   
   >features in South American myth are the stories of a deluge . . .   
   >Myths of a deluge are very widespread among both the highland   
   >peoples and the tribes of the tropical lowlands. The deluge is   
   >commonly connected with the creation and with an epiphany   
   >[manifestation] of the creator-god. . . . It is sometimes regarded   
   >as a divine punishment wiping out existing humankind in   
   >preparation for the emergence of a new race.”   
      
   Yet another worthless argument from authority. Somebody thinks   
   something but you don't say WHY he thinks that. But given your poor   
   performance with Campbell there is no reason to take your   
   interpretation seriously.   
      
   Explain WHY he reached that conclusion.   
      
   > Likewise, the Maya in Mexico and Central America had their Flood   
   >legend that involved a universal deluge, or haiyococab, which   
   >means “water over the earth.” Catholic bishop Las Casas wrote that   
      
   A global deluge which never happened. It's a legend. That's all.   
      
   >the Guatemalan Indians “called it Butic, which is the word which   
   >means flood of many waters and means the final judgment, and   
   >so they believe that another Butic is about to come, which is   
   >another flood and judgment, not of water, but of fire.” Many   
   >more flood legends exist around the world, but the few already   
   >quoted serve to confirm the kernel of the legend, the historical   
   >event related in the book of Genesis.   
      
   They do no such thing.   
      
   But in any case, what "historical event related in the book of   
   Genesis"?   
      
   >   
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